Best 9th level clerical spells for two evil clerics

[NewJeffCT]

One is a lawful evil cleric with the domains of Domination and Tyranny, so they get Monstrous Thrall or Dominate Monster as 9th level domain spells. Which non domain spells should this cleric take up against my PCs? Or, do I just go with an extra domain spell? Implosion maybe? Or, Mass Heal to help out her allies? Something else maybe? (There does not seem to be a Mass Harm, though, which would have been perfect...)

The other cleric is a N/E cleric with the domains of Strength and Hatred. Hatred gives him Wail of the Banshee as a domain spell, while Strength gives him Bigby's Crushing Hand as a domain spell. What would be good for him?

 

[frankthedm]

Mass Heal {implosion takes concentration and has short range]

Bigby's {Clerics have plenty of fort saves to sling already]

 

[NewJeffCT]

I was leaning towards Mass Heal - just when you think you've got a few of the bad guys' minions on the ropes with 100-150 of damage to the evil drow duskblade and a few others, along comes Mass Heal and you're back where you started... a bit frustrating for the PCs.

 

[Runestar]

Implosion is actually a fairly strong spell, IMO. It ignores protective spells such as death ward (in fact, it is fairly hard to defend against since it does not have any descriptors). Plus, if you use that feat which lets you maintain concentration as a move or swift action, this frees up your standard action to do other stuff like activate a staff or scroll (I don't think you can cast other spells, can you?).

Personally, I would go with chained greater dispel magic, but only if the party relies heavily on buffs. You may want to use the remaining spells on buffs, like chained greater magic weapon/magic vestments on every's eq, unholy aura, heroes' feast and maybe greater spell immunity.

 

[Shin Okada]

I vote for Bigby's, Implosion, Mass Heal & Miracle. Mind affecting compulsion spells are countered very easily. And while Wail of the Banshee is good, PCs tend to have really good Fort save and/or Deathward.

Bigy's spells are very good. And as already mentioned, Implosion is good as it is not a Death effect spell though it is a save or die spell. Mass Heal is always good, especially when 2 can cast it. And having a Miracle is good as PCs may do something a DM is not expecting.

Regardind de-buff, I will let them prepare Chain Dispel (8th-level spell) in PHB 2. This is one of the best de-buff spell, especially if those evil clerics can, somehow, have caster level 21+ (Strands of Prayer Beads (Karma), Divine Spell Power, etc.).

 

[NewJeffCT]

I vote for Bigby's, Implosion, Mass Heal & Miracle. Mind affecting compulsion spells are countered very easily. And while Wail of the Banshee is good, PCs tend to have really good Fort save and/or Deathward.

Bigy's spells are very good. And as already mentioned, Implosion is good as it is not a Death effect spell though it is a save or die spell. Mass Heal is always good, especially when 2 can cast it. And having a Miracle is good as PCs may do something a DM is not expecting.

Regardind de-buff, I will let them prepare Chain Dispel (8th-level spell) in PHB 2. This is one of the best de-buff spell, especially if those evil clerics can, somehow, have caster level 21+ (Strands of Prayer Beads (Karma), Divine Spell Power, etc.).

I've never really used the Bigby's hand spells since I tried them in 1E days back in the late 70s/early 80s. The Crushing Hand can basically grapple & crush one opponent (likely a spellcaster), taking them out of combat for at least a round or two without the caster needing to concentrate, if I'm not mistaken.

If the sorcerer is grappled, he can make a DC:25 concentration check (fairly easy for a level 16/17 caster) and Dimension Door away. Same with the psion. And, at AC:20, it's pretty easy to hit and destroy in a round for a higher level party as well.

Any suggested uses for it? The party has three "casters" - a cleric, a psion and a sorcerer. It has 2 tanks in a dwarf fighter and a goliath barbarian, and it has two finesse types in a rogue and a fighter/paladin/champion of Corellon.

 

[Shin Okada]

If the sorcerer is grappled, he can make a DC:25 concentration check (fairly easy for a level 16/17 caster) and Dimension Door away. Same with the psion.

Right. But that will not end the spell. Thus, unless the grappled caster goes really far away, the hand continue to attack him. Or, the cleric can turn it to another PC with a move action.

And, at AC:20, it's pretty easy to hit and destroy in a round for a higher level party as well..

Yep. But it will cost them at least one cast of above med-level spell (targeted Greater Dispel Magic?), or possibly one round worth of attacks or maybe more (for melee warriors). The hand is a spell effect and thus many of the additional damages don't work on it. And the grappled character must use light weapons and such.

Any suggested uses for it? The party has three "casters" - a cleric, a psion and a sorcerer. It has 2 tanks in a dwarf fighter and a goliath barbarian, and it has two finesse types in a rogue and a fighter/paladin/champion of Corellon.

Actually, Bigby's Crushing Hand tend to have much bigger grapple check bonus comparing to that of most of the melee PCs in the appropriate level. And that bonus is usually much higher than Escape Artist check modifier of PCs, too. The bonus is Caster Level + Wis mod + 16. So, the spell is not just effective against casters but also against most melee PCs. Those Finesse type combatants will be the easiest targets, I guess.

Also, you will likely to include a lot of minions in the encoutner, too. Right? A grappled character lose dexterity bonus to one's AC. That is a good chance for minion Rogues and Blackguards to make a nasty sneak attack.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Right. But that will not end the spell. Thus, unless the grappled caster goes really far away, the hand continue to attack him. Or, the cleric can turn it to another PC with a move action.


Actually, Bigby's Crushing Hand tend to have much bigger grapple check bonus comparing to that of most of the melee PCs in the appropriate level. And that bonus is usually much higher than Escape Artist check modifier of PCs, too. The bonus is Caster Level + Wis mod + 16. So, the spell is not just effective against casters but also against most melee PCs. Those Finesse type combatants will be the easiest targets, I guess.

Also, you will likely to include a lot of minions in the encoutner, too. Right? A grappled character lose dexterity bonus to one's AC. That is a good chance for minion Rogues and Blackguards to make a nasty sneak attack.

Thanks - I don't really see a flight speed in the Bigby's Hand spells. If said caster DD'd 100 feet away, does the hand have to take a round or two rounds or three to attack again?

And, yes, the hand's grapple check is pretty high - a minimum of +37 (17 for the lowest level able to cast it, 4 for a min wisdom, 12 for Str and 4 for size)
so, having the hand work in conjunction with a pair of rogues would be pretty good.

 

[Bungus]

If the bad guys know where the PCs are - hit them with Storm of Vengeance and let it run its course. Potential to deafen anybody within the storm, 6 lightning bolts that each do 10d6 damage, acid rain, 5d6 of hailstones, plus they need to make a fairly high concentration check to cast a decent spell (Min DC is 23 + spell level, but most likely it would be 25-27 plus spell level if the caster had a wisdom over 18 and any sort of feat/ability to increase save DC.) Then, when that is done and they're healing, come back and do a Chain Dispel as an 8th level spell.

 

[NewJeffCT]

If the bad guys know where the PCs are - hit them with Storm of Vengeance and let it run its course. Potential to deafen anybody within the storm, 6 lightning bolts that each do 10d6 damage, acid rain, 5d6 of hailstones, plus they need to make a fairly high concentration check to cast a decent spell (Min DC is 23 + spell level, but most likely it would be 25-27 plus spell level if the caster had a wisdom over 18 and any sort of feat/ability to increase save DC.) Then, when that is done and they're healing, come back and do a Chain Dispel as an 8th level spell.

Not a big fan of storm of vengeance, but the drow do not know the PCs are there - however, they are going to be attacking the village anyhow, so it's not a bad idea as a means of just wiping out most of its inhabitants.