Best Christmas films

[Clint_L]

You cant be claiming jewish stereotypes when absolutely nothing in the text mentions jews.

Of course you can. PLENTY of texts use implicit stereotypes. This is not a rare thing at all in literature. Dickens, in particular, is rather notorious for it. Basically all texts use figurative language (metaphors, symbols, motifs, etc.) to allude to things without stating them directly. That's pretty much art's whole thing.

I specifically wrote that Scrooge "does embody a number of negative Jewish stereotypes from the period." Which is factually true. Sadly, many still hold those stereotypes today.

When Dickens uses Jewish chatacters, like Fagin, he makes that explicit.
Scrooge is coded as British christian business man, the story only works because he is part of the Christmas-aligned culture that is being critiqued.

So, as I wrote, he is implicitly Christian (nowhere in the text does he explicitly identify himself as Christian, or is he explicitly called Christian as far as I can recall, but he does many Christian things, including, crucially, learning to keep Christmas better than anyone else).

However, how he is "coded" is subject to intepretation. It is not s stretch for someone to argue that he is coded as Jewish, or as having very recognizable negative Jewish stereotpyes attached to him. That is a defensible thesis given the source material, though it's not how I read the character.

Using a Jewish 'outsider' character or jewish stereotypes would lose the storys impact entirely.

That's hypothetical. There actually is quite a body of conversion literature where people have their eyes opened to the glory of the One True Faith; in fact, every culture and religion has such stories. It's not a stretch for me to imagine this story being written with Scrooge explicitly as such a figure, though I think it would not have aged as well.

I don't have a dog in this hunt; I'm as agnostic as they come. The meaning of art is subjective anyway, but this interpretiation of Scrooge being based on anti-Semitic stereotypes is not a stretch; a strong student could make a compelling argument. Note that historically moneylenders, even Chrisitan ones, were often tied to Jewish stereotypes because of the complicated and fraught history of Jewry in England.

 

[trappedslider]

when did this turn into a class on examining A christmas carol?

 

[payn]

when did this turn into a class on examining A christmas carol?

 

[trappedslider]

love how his nephew gave zero fs and roasted him by saying "That's not true"

 

[Paul Farquhar]

when did this turn into a class on examining A christmas carol?

It’s pretty hard to avoid if you want to discuss what makes a Christmas movie.

Personally, I prefer an M R James ghost story (but only one of those was made into a movie, and that was long ago) so they don’t really qualify.

 

[jian]

I think it’s fair to say that the characterisation of Scrooge does overlap with Victorian English anti-Semitic tropes (basically: moneylender, doesn’t celebrate Christmas) but also with Victorian English anti-Scottish tropes (basically: miser, doesn’t like fun), for instance. It seems that from what Dickens said about the character, he was thinking more of the latter. That doesn’t mean you can’t take Scrooge as a Jewish-coded character, but you can’t say that he’s definitely Jewish or meant as an anti-Semitic caricature, I think.

 

[Clint_L]

Was at a family gathering last night and the Jim Carrey Grinch was on. I really dislike that film, whereas I love the original animated version (the most recent animated version is…fine. Unremarkable).

I think it’s because in order to make Seuss’s story into a feature they had to create a bunch of backstory for the Grinch, which undermines his effectiveness. He’s kinda like the Alien Xenomorph: the less you know about his origins, the better.

Also, I find the live action Whos creepy.

Plus, no Boris Karloff. Gotta have Boris Karloff.

Or, most likely, it’s just because I was raised on the Chuck Jones version and imprinted on it. But I think it’s perfect.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Also, I find the live action Whos creepy.

There is apparently a shockingly large part of the internet that has a Who fetish.

 

[trappedslider]

There is apparently a shockingly large part of the internet that has a Who fetish.

I mean....shuts up

 

[jian]

Was at a family gathering last night and the Jim Carrey Grinch was on. I really dislike that film, whereas I love the original animated version (the most recent animated version is…fine. Unremarkable).

I think it’s because in order to make Seuss’s story into a feature they had to create a bunch of backstory for the Grinch, which undermines his effectiveness. He’s kinda like the Alien Xenomorph: the less you know about his origins, the better.

Also, I find the live action Whos creepy.

Plus, no Boris Karloff. Gotta have Boris Karloff.

Or, most likely, it’s just because I was raised on the Chuck Jones version and imprinted on it. But I think it’s perfect.

Yeah, I'd have to agree. The Cumberbatch version is fine but it's not a patch on the 1966 original. The Carrey version is an absolute travesty and the Whos (with their casual racism and massive philtrums) are honestly terrifying.