Best Heroes game to start

[Elric]

I find M&M 2e character creation to be very easy as well but I played 1e so that doesn't mean that much to someone who's never played before.

One the other hand, another guy in my current M&M 2e group hasn't played M&M (or any superhero rpg) before. I loaned him my 2e book- he wanted to build a psionic character (based on the Psionic archetype already in the book). Two days later his character was finished and the character only had two errors.

 

[C. Baize]

I find M&M 2e character creation to be very easy as well but I played 1e so that doesn't mean that much to someone who's never played before.

One the other hand, another guy in my current M&M 2e group hasn't played M&M (or any superhero rpg) before. I loaned him my 2e book- he wanted to build a psionic character (based on the Psionic archetype already in the book). Two days later his character was finished and the character only had two errors.

2 days? And there were errors?
First time 3 of my players played Blood and Vigilance, they had their characters up and ready to play in less than half an hour with no errors.
...
2 DAYS???

 

[Kanegrundar]

2 days? And there were errors?
First time 3 of my players played Blood and Vigilance, they had their characters up and ready to play in less than half an hour with no errors.
...
2 DAYS???

I'd say that's pretty excessive. I can make a M&M 2E character in about 15-20 minutes with no errors. Granted, the guy had never playing M&M before, not to mention a super hero game. That 2 days was likely spent reading the rules.

 

[C. Baize]

I'd say that's pretty excessive. I can make a M&M 2E character in about 15-20 minutes with no errors. Granted, the guy had never playing M&M before, not to mention a super hero game. That 2 days was likely spent reading the rules.

15-20 minutes is just about what it should take.

Man... I thought my nephew was slow... takes him about 8 hours to create a character... In ANY system. But he goes through and runs a bunch of math in his head (he's a mathematical savant) to figure out the most advantageous path to take his character... And he has to read the book ... the whole thing... every time he creates a character. Never seen anything like it.
He does the math in his head so I can't see him doing it. If I KNOW he's doing it, I don't allow it.

But... geeze... 2 days?

 

[Michael Tree]

I'd say that's pretty excessive. I can make a M&M 2E character in about 15-20 minutes with no errors. Granted, the guy had never playing M&M before, not to mention a super hero game. That 2 days was likely spent reading the rules.

That sounds about right for me. Besides, he said that his player came back in two days with a character, not that it took two solid days to create it.

If you gave the Hero book to someone who'd never played it or any other superhero game before, I wonder how long it would take them to learn the rules and make a competent character. A week or two, at least.

 

[Captain Tagon]

That sounds about right for me. Besides, he said that his player came back in two days with a character, not that it took two solid days to create it.

If you gave the Hero book to someone who'd never played it or any other superhero game before, I wonder how long it would take them to learn the rules and make a competent character. A week or two, at least.

I've been working on HERO for a year and a half and still can't figure it out.

 

[Kanegrundar]

I've been working on HERO for a year and a half and still can't figure it out.

I like Hero, but it's very much a case of a game having too much to read through. Getting a character made in Hero is a pain. The creation process isn't bad, just trying to make sure that you've got the bases covered so that the character isn't a complete weakling or one-trick pony in a group that knows the rules well can be rough.

 

[Captain Tagon]

I like Hero, but it's very much a case of a game having too much to read through. Getting a character made in Hero is a pain. The creation process isn't bad, just trying to make sure that you've got the bases covered so that the character isn't a complete weakling or one-trick pony in a group that knows the rules well can be rough.

I really do love the system. And I love being able to create whatever character I want. I'm just still not any good at making that character a real threat. Especially in high point supers games.

 

[Elric]

That sounds about right for me. Besides, he said that his player came back in two days with a character, not that it took two solid days to create it.

Exactly. He wasn't working on the character for 48 hours straight. I gave him the book on a Monday night. He sent me a character sheet Wednesday afternoon and he had class in between. He had never played M&M before, so he was probably reading the rulebook to figure out what kind of character he wanted to play and then what skills/feat/powers he wanted.

I’m not the GM, but since I was the only other player with a 2e book at that point I figured that I should help the other people (especially people who hadn’t played M&M 1e) learn the game. By the way, both of the errors concerned PL limits: not realizing that the Attractive feat counts against your skill ranks in Bluff/Diplomacy and not realizing that PL limits on mental powers that cause saves are strict limits since there's no roll to hit.

Plus, the book isn't all about the mechanics of the game. Part of building a character in any game is getting a feel for the setting the game is working with. The M&M 2e book has a lot of great setting information (the world building chapter is awesome).

 

[SWBaxter]

If you gave the Hero book to someone who'd never played it or any other superhero game before, I wonder how long it would take them to learn the rules and make a competent character. A week or two, at least.

Hero's a generic game now, so tossing 'em FRED isn't really all that bright. Given Champions and/or the UNTIL Superpowers Database and a new player willing to work from a classic template rather than do something wonky, it takes about half an hour to forty-five minutes in my experience. M&M 1E under the same conditions is 20-30 minutes, again in my experience. Haven't tried it with M&M 2E, but I expect it'd be about the same. Unless the GM is some kind of closet sadist, leaving a new player alone with a rulebook and no guidance isn't usually the best way to introduce somebody to the game, IMHO.

Then again, nowadays I wouldn't use either game to intro somebody to the hobby - I'd use HeroQuest and some houserules. Character generation in that game consists of describing your character, much easier to get things moving. Both Hero and M&M are relatively crunchy approaches to superhero gaming, and IME they're most enjoyable for people who are already gamers.