log in or register to remove this ad

 

5E Best Name For A “Leader” Class?

Best name?

  • Herald

    Votes: 7 7.1%
  • Banneret

    Votes: 3 3.0%
  • Captain

    Votes: 17 17.2%
  • Warlord

    Votes: 25 25.3%
  • Marshal

    Votes: 37 37.4%
  • Mark

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other - let us know!

    Votes: 12 12.1%
  • Commander

    Votes: 18 18.2%
  • Warden

    Votes: 8 8.1%
  • Sentinel

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    99

log in or register to remove this ad

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Well, to be fair... you also aren't getting past the new use of the term 'warlord', so it's a street going both ways. :D
Nope. There is no usage of the term that fits the class. There is no context in which it is an appropriate name. It has never not meant more or less “military taker over of things by force, usually against the will or in absence of any greater legitimate authority”.
It’s like naming the class “despot” or “tyrant”.
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
Nope. There is no usage of the term that fits the class. There is no context in which it is an appropriate name. It has never not meant more or less “military taker over of things by force, usually against the will or in absence of any greater legitimate authority”.
It’s like naming the class “despot” or “tyrant”.
Well no, they invented the new way to use it when they chose it for 4E. That was my point. :)
 

It has never not meant more or less “military taker over of things by force, usually against the will or in absence of any greater legitimate authority”.
The key thing that's good about it in the context of the D&D class is that it doesn't imply legitimate authority. In fact, in most definitions, the lack of the Warlord having any legitimate authority beyond the strength of his allies is key. A major stumbling block to the very concept of the class is the misperception that it does represent legitimate authority and even place in a military hierarchy, and must be the literal party leader. Marshal, Captain, Commander and other ranks are pretty awful, from that perspective.

It’s like naming the class “despot” or “tyrant”.
Or Sorcerer, Warlock, Assassin, Thief, Necromancer ...

There is so much 'edginess' in the names of classes & sub-classes. And, there's just so much "taking over things by force" implicit in the provenance of D&D classes and the very play of the game, that we ironically call PCs 'murder hobos' ...

...it's a non-issue.

Well no, they invented the new way to use it when they chose it for 4E. That was my point. :)
Which D&D has never done before, of course...

...except for the Sorcerer (has never meant "innate magical power," but generally, if not an outright charlatan, one claiming magical power derived from evil spirits)… and the Paladin (real definition: Peer of Charlemagne)… and Fighter (boxer) … and magic-user (just made up) … and … well, prettymuch every class to some extent or another.
 
Last edited:

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Or Sorcerer, Warlock, Assassin, Thief...

There is so much "taking over things by force" implicit in the provenance of D&D classes and the very play of the game, that we ironically call PCs 'murder hobos' ...

...it's a non-issue.
Those names fit the concept of the class they name.
Also, the vast majority of people don’t associate “sorcerer” with anything negative.

but the assassin, thief, and warlock are supposed to have names that engender negative feelings. They’re classes where you play something that is normally a bad guy.

the leader-class isn’t that, and shouldn't have a name that evokes bad guys. 🤷‍♂️
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Well no, they invented the new way to use it when they chose it for 4E. That was my point. :)
And if that is okay then it’s also okay to change the name to something that most people don’t associate with violent despotic psychopaths.
 

Those names fit the concept of the class they name.
Also, the vast majority of people don’t associate “sorcerer” with anything negative.
Don't start with the appeals to imagined 'vast majorities.' You see something negative in the term Warlord. Others may well not. Hell, Robin Hood & his band of armed insurgents carved out a region of Sherwood Forest in defiance of legitimate authority.

And if that is okay then it’s also okay to change the name to something that most people don’t associate with violent despotic psychopaths.
The only thing that gets brought up that might be an added layer of negativity beyond that of most D&D classes is the use, by the media, of Warlord to translate the terms used in Afghanistan for their tribal leaders with armed followers who variously opposed or accepted bribes from the 'coalition' - violent, certainly, like basically all D&D classes, but mainly just ruthless and on the wrong side.
And, I must say 'most' because Cleric and Sorcerer also have been used in the media to translate terms for radical religious leaders who order murders and incite terrorism (certainly 'violent' and more arguably 'psychopaths,' and charlatans who prey upon the superstitious, respectively.
 
Last edited:

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Don't start with the appeals to imagined 'vast majorities.' You see something negative in the term Warlord. Others may well not. Hell, Robin Hood & his band of armed insurgents carved out a region of Sherwood Forest in defiance of legitimate authority.



The only thing that gets brought up that might be an added layer of negativity beyond that of most D&D classes is the use, by the media, of Warlord to translate the terms used in Afghanistan for their tribal leaders with armed followers who variously opposed or accepted bribes from the 'coalition' - violent, certainly, like basically all D&D classes, but mainly just ruthless and on the wrong side.
And, I must say 'most' because Cleric and Sorcerer also have been used in the media to translate terms for radical religious leaders who order murders and incite terrorism (certainly 'violent' and more arguably 'psychopaths,' and charlatans who prey upon the superstitious.
Show me an example of sorcerer in modern western news media, being used to denote anything like what you just described.

And Robin Hood didn’t control the forest as a de facto ruler. He was a bandit/outlaw captain.

I’m done with this exchange. We’ve been here before, and I’m not going to just beat my head on this wall again.
 

Show me an example of sorcerer in modern western news media, being used to denote anything like what you just described.
actually, that guy's just all over the internet....damn.

hmmm...not only in media, but in scholarly works:


And Robin Hood didn’t control the forest as a de facto ruler. He was a bandit/outlaw
Your own definition included defiance of legitimate authority that's an outlaw.
The objection that the word couldn't possibly be applied to anyone but despots (violent and psychopathic would hardly be unusually for adventurers) is unfounded. It can apply to classic heroes of literature, like Robin Hood, by definition - and was actually used with John Carter, Warlord of Mars. Oh, and Warlord is a Marvel Superhero, too, there hasn't exactly been a hew & cry over that.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
actually, that guy's just all over the internet....damn.

hmmm...not only in media, but in scholarly works:


Your own definition included defiance of legitimate authority that's an outlaw.
The objection that the word couldn't possibly be applied to anyone but despots (violent and psychopathic would hardly be unusually for adventurers) is unfounded. It can apply to classic heroes of literature, like Robin Hood, by definition - and was actually used with John Carter, Warlord of Mars. Oh, and Warlord is a Marvel Superhero, too, there hasn't exactly been a hew & cry over that.
Jfc I don’t care, Tony.
None of those fit what you described.
Calling Robin Hood a warlord is the absolute most absurd leap I’ve seen here in a very long time.
I’m going to temporarily ignore you, so I can engage usefully with the topic at hand.
 

Jfc I don’t care, Tony.
You asked.
None of those fit what you described.
Cleric and Sorcerer also have been used in the media to translate terms for radical religious leaders who order murders and incite terrorism (certainly 'violent' and more arguably 'psychopaths,' and charlatans who prey upon the superstitious
Calling Robin Hood a warlord is the absolute most absurd leap I’ve seen here in a very long time.
He fits the definition you chose. It's not a leap, at all. The class isn't exactly a bad fit for him, either.
 

Tonguez

Hero
''Marshal'. To "marshal" people around is a good part of what the class does, but it also does not represent a status position above the others in the party, like 'Captain' or 'Commander' does. Or indeed like the idea of a "Leader" does too.
You do know that Marshal is the highest military rank in many nations?

personally I like Captain (change it to Capitaine if you want something more exotic)

I’m also enamoured of the term Stratarches
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
Eh, all of these are fine choices. I think I like "commander" best, but "officer" would be good too. As an officer, you could change your title as you advance, going from Lieutenant to General (or from Ensign to Fleet Admiral, for those in the Navy) as you advance in level.

And it's neither here nor there, but I built a pretty great "battlefield leader" out of a human bard with the Soldier background and the Inspiring Leader feat. What's in a name, really?
 
Last edited:



. As an officer, you could change your title as you advance, going from Lieutenant to General (or from Ensign to Fleet Admiral, for those in the Navy) as you advance in level.
While the misconception that the Warlord class implies legitimate position or power or must automatically be the party leader (in the sense of bossing players around) is one of the complaints we here about the class, and any military rank or legitimate-authority name is thus pretty fraught, I'm increasingly convinced there should be a sub-class that represents just that, because particularly talented/skilled officers might be modeled as Warlords. While Captain or Commander could be used for such a sub-class, I suppose Officer makes some sense, since you can, as you say, work promotions into it, and it's just generally less specific.

Though, D&D class names aren't assumed to be used by the characters, themselves (not since, maybe 1e level titles). A "Captain of the Guard" could be a Warlord, Fighter, or Ranger - or an NPC-stat-block Guard - or even a Rogue or caster of some sort, in a high-magic setting like FR. Even if a subclass were called 'Captain' the character might be called "Lieutenant" or "General" or "Hipparch" or whatever in accord with the rank he earns in his adventures.

And it's neither here nor there, but I built a pretty great "battlefield leader" out of a human bard with the Soldier background and the Inspiring Leader feat. What's in a name, really?
In the name "Bard" in D&D?
9 levels of spellcasting. ;)
 

Robin Hood was the leader of a band, the merry men, closer to a special operations squad, but he wasn't an expansive conqueror. He only controlled his own zone, the Sherkwood forest, until the ultimate victory against the villain in the end of the movie.
 


Sacrosanct

Legend
Whatever you want to call it, don't call it an "officer". As an NCO when I was in the military, when I hear "officer", I think incompetent ;)

Also, don't call it the same name of another class in a previous edition. That's just too confusing.
 

GreyLord

Adventurer
Well, I chose Marshal. I know it dates back at least to the 3.x Miniatures Handbook which had a few classes, the Marshall being one of them. In some respects it was basically an earlier version of the Warlord.
 

Most Liked Threads

Advertisement2

Advertisement4

Top