Best use of rituals you have seen so far?

[Plane Sailing]

They would have looked in, seen the setup (big idols, pools of blood across the whole room, bits of dagger on the other side), backed out, done the ritual, then made the dash and grab. The monsters are all hidden until people step in the blood...

 

[Ahzad]

It seems that since even the most trivial rituals take ages to cast, the pHB rituals are designed for out-of-combat use only...
Cheers

Rituals you either love them or hate them, at least my group seems to and mostly they just hate them, not all of them mind you, but almost all of the 77 10 minute or less rituals (I found 11 that I couldn't see being used in a combat round environment) used to have in combat round applications (granted there are still a few that could be weeded out I think) for our group throughout the years and now not so much. The folks that have access to Ritual Caster now just would rather take Alchemist b/c then they could at least use their stuff in combat, any rituals you can pay some one to do that or convince one of the party members to please take the feat.

Some of the rituals that used to have in combat round applications: Passwall, Rope Trick, Arcane Barrier, and others. Now if you are being chased by the bad guys and you are out of options all you can hope for is to prolong the combat round by 100 rounds so your wizard can get you out of the jam by casting Passwall b/c you ran into a dead end. I don't know about you but our combat don't last that long.

So I'm not happy with some of the rituals and the players in my game who play wizards aren't happy with rituals, along with just being unhappy with wizards in general. It's very likely that we'll sit down and look more closely at the rituals with a "in combat round application" and house rule the casting times or something to make them useful again. I don't want them to be instantaneous b/c I like the tension that can come from it.

I've seen a few things that cut the casting time to 1/2 (scrolls, magic items), but that still is a very long time in combat. I think some of the rituals could be served by having them prepared in advance like the scroll, but then have the casting time set to X number of rounds, and with each successful check it shaves another round off the time, & beating the DC by 5 or more will take an additional round off that way you can have that desperate stand in a dead end, while the wizard preps your way out of dodge.

 

[fba827]

I guess a big factor is -- how much of the typical session is in combat and how much is taken by noncombat encounters. Every group's mix is different, but that may factor in to whether or not the players even consider it worthwhile to invest in or use those rituals.

 

[Ryujin]

Rituals you either love them or hate them, at least my group seems to and mostly they just hate them, not all of them mind you, but almost all of the 77 10 minute or less rituals (I found 11 that I couldn't see being used in a combat round environment) used to have in combat round applications (granted there are still a few that could be weeded out I think) for our group throughout the years and now not so much. The folks that have access to Ritual Caster now just would rather take Alchemist b/c then they could at least use their stuff in combat, any rituals you can pay some one to do that or convince one of the party members to please take the feat.

Some of the rituals that used to have in combat round applications: Passwall, Rope Trick, Arcane Barrier, and others. Now if you are being chased by the bad guys and you are out of options all you can hope for is to prolong the combat round by 100 rounds so your wizard can get you out of the jam by casting Passwall b/c you ran into a dead end. I don't know about you but our combat don't last that long.

So I'm not happy with some of the rituals and the players in my game who play wizards aren't happy with rituals, along with just being unhappy with wizards in general. It's very likely that we'll sit down and look more closely at the rituals with a "in combat round application" and house rule the casting times or something to make them useful again. I don't want them to be instantaneous b/c I like the tension that can come from it.

I've seen a few things that cut the casting time to 1/2 (scrolls, magic items), but that still is a very long time in combat. I think some of the rituals could be served by having them prepared in advance like the scroll, but then have the casting time set to X number of rounds, and with each successful check it shaves another round off the time, & beating the DC by 5 or more will take an additional round off that way you can have that desperate stand in a dead end, while the wizard preps your way out of dodge.

I haven't played a whole lot of 3.0/3.5, but I don't remember there being a whole lot of low level teleports in those versions of the game. If you need to get away from a pursuing enemy, then bring along a Wizard who can make the party fly, or a Feylock who can teleport with a passenger. Utility powers have largely supplanted the older spells, and they have immediate effect. There's always a way.

Rituals have created a situation where you can cast any number of spells of a useful sort, with the only limitation being the amount of money (generic components) you're willing and able to spend. In a few hours you can build an earthen fort in the middle of the wilderness, then pop a huge pavilion tent up in the middle of it. You can summon a herd of ghostly horses and gallop straight across a lake, drastically reducing your travel time. You can open paths to other dimensions and virtually step through to your ultimate destination. They're infinitely useful.

It's a different game. Don't get hung up on the way that things used to be.

 

[Plane Sailing]

It's a different game. Don't get hung up on the way that things used to be.

BUT, I started that digression with my observation that in modules H1 and H2 the final BBEG is doing a ritual in the middle of the last combat, and it is a significant factor in the combat.

It appears that the designers, although not putting any rituals that can be used in combat in the books, regularly put them into their modules (and presumably also their home games?)

I think that most of the rituals could probably be reduced to 1 minute casting time quite effectively - they still take a while to cast, but with combats capable of lasting 10-20 rounds, a ritual which takes one minor action per round for 10 rounds to complete could be a useful and interesting factor of any combat - perhaps the wizard is attempting to use Knock to bypass the door which is sealed from the far side and has no keyholes, or the bridge has to be Made Whole so they can get the prisoners to safety while the ravening hordes are being held off by the rest of the party.

Cheers

 

[Ahzad]

BUT, I started that digression with my observation that in modules H1 and H2 the final BBEG is doing a ritual in the middle of the last combat, and it is a significant factor in the combat.

It appears that the designers, although not putting any rituals that can be used in combat in the books, regularly put them into their modules (and presumably also their home games?)

I think that most of the rituals could probably be reduced to 1 minute casting time quite effectively - they still take a while to cast, but with combats capable of lasting 10-20 rounds, a ritual which takes one minor action per round for 10 rounds to complete could be a useful and interesting factor of any combat - perhaps the wizard is attempting to use Knock to bypass the door which is sealed from the far side and has no keyholes, or the bridge has to be Made Whole so they can get the prisoners to safety while the ravening hordes are being held off by the rest of the party.

Cheers

That is exactly what the issue I'm having with them. I put things like that in my game where the wizard could really use knock or shadow bridge for what ever the situation might call for and the current power scheme is lacking in that and which is in turn having us look at the game so we can make rituals an interesting thing to use in combat situations, not just outside of combat.

The vast majority of the rituals are fine outside of combat and the times seem okay to us, but the ones that are useful inside of a combat round are just to long to be useful. We'll be play testing our 'fix' in the game next week and hopefully the players will give us some good feedback on it.

 

[Ryujin]

BUT, I started that digression with my observation that in modules H1 and H2 the final BBEG is doing a ritual in the middle of the last combat, and it is a significant factor in the combat.

It appears that the designers, although not putting any rituals that can be used in combat in the books, regularly put them into their modules (and presumably also their home games?)

I think that most of the rituals could probably be reduced to 1 minute casting time quite effectively - they still take a while to cast, but with combats capable of lasting 10-20 rounds, a ritual which takes one minor action per round for 10 rounds to complete could be a useful and interesting factor of any combat - perhaps the wizard is attempting to use Knock to bypass the door which is sealed from the far side and has no keyholes, or the bridge has to be Made Whole so they can get the prisoners to safety while the ravening hordes are being held off by the rest of the party.

Cheers

When the baddies are casting a ritual, they are usually doing it in their lair. How long have they been casting it, before the party walked in? The ticking bomb is a staple of adventure fiction. This is just its fantasy equivalent.

 

[Nytmare]

BUT, I started that digression with my observation that in modules H1 and H2 the final BBEG is doing a ritual in the middle of the last combat, and it is a significant factor in the combat.

I think he was talking specifically about Ahzad's groups' dislike of the Weezard in general.

More of a "don't think that they're not good simply because they're different" than anything else.

I wonder what the specific design idea had been to place rituals into the "definitely longer than an encounter" time block? Maybe it was to make sure that the ritual caster didn't get stuck sitting through an entire combat reading a newspaper waiting for everyone else to finish up.

 

[Belares]

I think that the time it takes to do a ritual from your ritual book is fine, but from a scroll should be faster. PHB states "Casting a ritual from a scroll takes half the time indicated in the ritual's description, since the creation of the scroll has the magic primed(and ready)." I think maybe instead of half the time it should be 1% of the time. That would at least make them more useful in combat, if needed. Of course, that makes them very powerful too. You still have to have the components and any focus. This is just an observation and I do not think it would be overpowered, as potions and Alchemy items are instantanous. Sure they have a time limit but when used they almost all have quick use items. Rituals scrolls can be similar to that effect if you want them too.

 

[Ulrik]

I've been thinking of allowing certain rituals in certain situations to be completed via a skill challenge, so that the ritual caster at least can roll a dice during his turn, and feel good if his high skill helps the party win the fight even if he's basically just sitting there for the fight. You just have to be careful so that it mainly happens while the party is under pressure