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Best way to beef up encounters: Higher CRs or larger numbers?

And now for something completely different..

Neither. As mentioned you end up with either a TPK or a cake-walk.

The answer lays in timing. Compress the encounters, going up 2 or 3 a day from your usual.
My game has 8 Players and tends towards 6 encounters a day. More PC's means less resources spent in each encounter, and less XP gained due to splitting the take.
A note, your spell casters will have some issues with this, as thier abilities take a hit. I suggest using a spell point system {The Elements of Magic is a good one} to boost thier power and flexibility.
 

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For what it's worth, I recently ran Cooperative Dungeon 2 for my group and I had the same problem as the OP.

I decided to bump the CR3 baddies to CR6. Bad move.

They still died in one hit and the party got twice the XP they should had.
 

Remember you can change Stats without chainging CR (and who says a your monsters can't have 18's in everything*!:P

you can add a monster 1 or 2 CRs higher to an existiing encounter without too much problem (any more than this and it starts to break down)

You can also add additional low CR encounters (even better if they are non-combat ones that still use resources)




*However this is a bad idea)
 

Stalker0 said:
I think more monsters are better in general....I've found with bumping creature's CRs you often get:

1) An awesome monster that gets wiped out
2) An awesome monsters that wipes you out.

Larger numbers of weaker creatures can often be run from easier.
I agree with the conclusion, but regarding 1)... they would've been wiped out anyway. This way, at least they were wiped out slightly harder.
 
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Well. Read the monsters, i've never tryed you as the DM, and dunno your experience.. But playing the monsters right (not too smart or anything - just as good as they allow it considering wis/int) the monsters get more wacky..
take this example: a Level 6 fighter fighting 1 or 2 Ogres.. (3.0 so they are CR 2)
according to CR it should be easy, and if you use the Ogres as "good life good damage" as they kindof are written, he might get a little challenge, BUT if you use their Trip feat, once in a while they will become IMORTAL considering their Size and Strenght..
My point is: Read the monster, be sure to buff them up (if they jsut got a little clue that they are gonna meet someone) so they are prepared. Then they will get toucher even without u changing anything.
 

I am currenlty running a group of 8. And yeah, it is a pain.

I would recommend upping the number. If you make the creature much harder, it is too easy for the creature to kill 1-2 of the party before going down. Like right now, the group is 2nd level. I am *sure* they could take out a CR 6 creature. But it would mean some of them died. But enough goblins to make it ECL 6 they may all live through. (though still tough.)

And it just isn't that hard to bump up the numbers a bit.

Another tactic is to have the numbers 'trickle' in. More creatures come in round 3. Or somesuch. That way they get the larger/harder encounter, without getting overwhelmed.

Plus, it tends to add a sense of tension, since encounters are no longer "one at a time".

Good luck/
 

When number of PCs are large, I prefer to increase the number of Monsters. While doubling the number of PCs raise effective party strength (level) by 2, that does not mean they can match something with CR with their level +6 and such. Higher level spells and special abilities may annihilate the PCs.

And If I were you also consider expanding the size of some rooms and corridors. Most sold modules are made 4 PCs in mind. So often, each rooms are too small for a fight between 7 PCs and equally numerous opponents.

Regarding higher ability scores for monsters. Read MM P.290 "Improving Monsters". Now ability scores are considered to be an important part of Monster's strength. Raising ability scores without giving appropriate NPC/PC class level will raise the monster's CR.
 

Coredump said:
Another tactic is to have the numbers 'trickle' in. More creatures come in round 3. Or somesuch. That way they get the larger/harder encounter, without getting overwhelmed.

Plus, it tends to add a sense of tension, since encounters are no longer "one at a time".

This trickle-in tactic is one of my personal favorites, if done welll it can really allow a dm to tailor the difficulty of encounters. If you're running pre-written adventures (published or self written) and don't want to add alot to the total experience its important to be aware of the populations of area's nearby the current encounter. These 'next encounters' are your extra oomph for the current encounter.

The typical bar fight is a pretty loud affair, now add in the clash of metal weapons and armor, a few death screams, maybe a lightning bolt or two. It's very likely that 'the encounter in the next room over (or up the hall)' is going to hear whats going on.

Now, if I'm orc warrior bob, and I hear a bunch of my compadre's doing some butt whipping I'm pretty likely to want to go join the fray.. if it sounds like my buddies are on the recieving end of the butt whooping I might run and warn anyone not already involved.

So, maybe the pc's have an easy first battle in the dungeon.. but come fight no. 2 the orc warriors are ready and waiting, or even actively hunting the party.

Another useful, but definately not to be overused trick is sleep interruption. RAW says spellcasters must have 8hrs of sleep to regain their spent spell slots. Sooooo.. send a couple of sling equipped stealth goblins (or whatever) to whack a few sleeping pc's. Won't hurt them much.. but it can wake them up. I wouldn't recommend specifically targeting spellcasters though, use a random roll, unless you have a reason for the enemy to be able to identify them as spellcasters. I again want to caution you not to overuse this trick.. it can be really frustrating for a pc to have his best mojo repeatedly shut down.

If you can, try to have one or more of the monsters run away towards help. If the pc's just AoO, or otherwise nuke him, well that happens and after the first one gets away (and comes back with friends from another encounter) the characters'll really start to feel that taking out the runner was worth the effort.. at that point you can start to do devious things like set up ambushes, and use suicide trapspringing runners, (I love using that tactic with kobolds, just seems appropriate for the sneaky li'l twerps)

Finally as another poster said, read the monster descriptions, know every little combat trick the monster can use, and use it. Just remember, you're not out to kill players, but you want them to think they could die.

Hope all my longwinded drivel helps, sorry I'm not familar with the module yer running and can't tailor my advice more specifically.
 

Well, several other people have already mentioned this, so I'll just reiterate:

A party of 6 4th level pcs can handle EL 6 encounters as their 'baseline.' However, a single CR 6 monster is often much harder to deal with than an EL 6 encounter composed of multiple lower-CR opponents. That CR 6 guy might be extremely hard to hurt or able to kill 4th-level pcs one per round, while a pair of CR 4 guys are a tough encounter without any one-round killers involved.
 

In general I would go for higher numbers rather than higher CR when challenging a party with more party members.

When converting to 3.5, be sure to note the jump in CR for some of the opponents in there (demons mostly). We are playing the adventure currently (tho, we are pretty far already, I think) and the DM simply used the 3.5 demons first, which made some encounters rather nasty (I think, he said afterwards, that was a CR 10 3.0 demon turned to CR 16 in 3.5, which we fought there... we barely made it without casualties). :eek:

Bye
Thanee
 
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