Best Way to Play a Swashbuckler with 3.5 Rules?

[Aluvial]

To me, a Lawful Neutral swashbuckler is either a professional duelist or a dedicated representative (and fighter) for a house, like one of the more dour musketeers (say, Athos?) -- somebody who has a strict code, follows the rules, and isn't going to engage in any shenannigans -- but who will use everything at his disposal to take out his enemies once honor demands it.

Spring Attack is a must for your guy -- he should be swinging by opponents on ship-ropes or chandeliers and whacking them as he goes by. Depending on what books your DM lets you use, see if you can find anything for "improved AC when fighting with a weapon in one hand". If not, then I'd go with Expertise, or... well, frankly, go with the Duelist class. It's perfect for you. It pretty much has everything I just went on about.

So, Duelist with Spring Attack, and since Dodge and Mobility are Duelist pre-reqs, Spring Attack is really easy to get.

Sorry, I realize that I should have given more information!

Takaris, you are right on though with the alignment. The thing is, I've been DMing for around 14 years and this is the first time I've played in a while. It so refreshing to be the cut-up for a change.

The character is loyal to king and country, but more so to family and navy. In fact, the navy is something new for the kingdom, I'm likely to be made a captain after I gain a few levels.

When designing the character, I first thought about going with Dex for the weapon finesse/skills (balance, tumble) thing and then going with Improved Feint. I like the idea of throwing my opponent off guard. I even though about enhancing my skill selection out by getting a level (or three) of rogue to get the sneak attack.

Spring attack seems like a fine choice too and I like the idea of being as close to a marine (three) musketeer as possible. I just wasn't sure about what skills (outside of the obvious) would help me in that regard. So far in the very first combat against brigands, I offered surrender as a choice to each of my foes before running them through with my rapier...

The DM is giving us plenty of opportunity to change our characters around though, so I thought I would get some opinions...

Thanks for the help, and if anyone has some ideas, let me know.

As to the character's abilities, I can't take anything over a 16. Right now I believe I'm

Str 14
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 8
Chr 10

Or something like that....

Aluvial

 

[Snapdragyn]

I'd give strong consideration early on to weapon style choice, as this will play into feat selection (& potentially even class choice).

If you go TWF, I'd recommend duel-wielding cutlasses. These are both slashing & piercing weapons, so they could be used without penalty underwater (or so I'd rule; check with your DM). Unlike a rapier, they are light weapons; this means your offhand attack would be at -2 instead of -4 for duel-wielding rapiers. By using the same weapon in each hand, of course, you can take Weapon Focus just once for a +1 bonus to each hand.

You could, of course, go single weapon & look for bonuses to AC based on that. If you're not into any PrC that offers such bonuses, though, I'm not sure what the advantage would be there; sure you'd avoid the -2 BAB hit, but you'd give up an entire extra attack to do so. Without the AC bonus stuff, I'm not sure that's worth it, particularly if you're thinking of a few rogue levels where the sneak attack roll could be applied to each hand.

 

[Dogbrain]

First, and most importantly, play in a campaign with an appropriate setting, not some braindead mishmash that includes 17th-century and 12th-century concepts munged together. If you don't make that decision first, no advice can prevent complete stupidity.

 

[CCamfield]

Is this swordsman a stylish and debonaire fellow, as likely to be spotted with a book of poetry and a cup of wine as a sword? Or is he a grim representative of the crown who will stop at nothing to hunt down the king's enemies? Perhaps a young man burning to prove himself and garner honour, glory, and wealth? Or a schemer who relies on gathering intelligence and making plans before throwing himself into the fray?

All of these, I think, could fit and can be consistent with a LN alignment. What sort of a character you want to play is up to you.

Doesn't the swashbuckler get an Int bonus to damage? I might be tempted to drop Con to 12 and bump Int to 14.

 

[Snapdragyn]

Doesn't the swashbuckler get an Int bonus to damage? I might be tempted to drop Con to 12 and bump Int to 14.

Good point; they do indeed, starting at level 3 (Insightful Strike). That's also another small factor toward TWF, IMO; the INT bonus to damage counts equally for both attacks (unlike the 1/2 STR to offhand). Only works on 'critable' targets, however.

 

[Nifft]

As to the character's abilities, I can't take anything over a 16. Right now I believe I'm

Str 14
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 8
Chr 10

A Swashbuckler seems to benefit from Int more than Str. I'd go for:

Str 10
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 8
Chr 12

(You need a decent Charisma to be a leader, and Captain is certainly a kind of leader. And at level 3, you add Int to your damage -- no need for a high Str. You can boost Str later if you wish, but you don't get retroactive skill points!)

However, that's only a 24 point buy -- very low stats! If you had 25 to work with, I'd take 13 in Charisma, and plan on boosting it at 4th level. If you had even more points to work with, I'd take 16 Int, 16 Dex, and/or 16 Con (in that order).

-- N

 

[MerricB]

Hmm - I'm playing a Human Swashbuckler at the moment.

His stats are Str 13, Dex 15, Con 9, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 14. (Those were rolled on 4d6).

You still need some strength - if just so you don't become encumbered with a chain shirt. For the first couple of levels, the majority of your attacks will be with a rapier (single), not TWF. Once you reach 3rd level, TWF becomes an option - and indeed, almost a necessity to take advantage of the bonus to damage.

Keeping your AC high is difficult, but important.

Remember, you need a 15 Dex for TWF!

May I suggest the following build?
(28 point buy, as required)

Human Swashbuckler
Str 13 Dex 15 Con 10 Int 15 Wis 8 Cha 13

Atk: Rapier +4 melee (1d6+1/18-20)

Skills: Balance +6, Bluff +5, Climb +5, Diplomacy +5, Escape Artist +6, Jump +5, Sense Motive +3, Tumble +6
Feats: Weapon Focus (rapier), Weapon Finesse, Combat Expertise.

At 2nd level, the increase in skills to "synergy" levels will make them:
L2 Skills: Balance +9, Bluff +6, Diplomacy +10, Escape Artist +7, Jump +8, Sense Motive +4, Tumble +9.

At 3rd level, your feat should be Two Weapon Fighting.
At 4th level, I'd increase your Int to improve damage, but it could also be Dex.

The Complete Warrior swashbuckler is an effective fighter and diplomat, with some excellent manuevering skills. You're not quite front-line material, due to an inferior AC, but you're pretty good!

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

Skills: Balance +6, Bluff +5, Climb +5, Diplomacy +5, Escape Artist +6, Jump +5, Sense Motive +3, Tumble +6

Of those skills, Climb, Escape Artist and Jump are probably the ones I'd classify as "not essential", so if you want to take Swim, Use Rope and Profession skills instead, that'd probably be a good idea.

Cheers!

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

About the alignment: I think LN is a perfectly fine swashbuckler alignment. Let's consider a few examples:

Athos from The Three Musketeers: Utterly devoted to the King. Very traditional--lives by the old, traditional honor code of the duel rather than the new code that prohibits duelling. Turned his wife over to be executed when he discovered she was an escaped prisoner. Turned her over again when he discovered her in her new guise as the Cardinal's assassin. There's plenty of ways to describe him so that he sounds chaotic (see any of my posts on law/chaos axis to see why I think the axis is incoherent), but that description sounds rather lawful--even Lawful Neutral.

Dartagnan from the Three Musketeers: Utterly devoted to the king. Again, abides by the society's traditional definition of honor. Devoted to a fililial duty of vengeance against the man who killed his father.

Aramis from the Three Musketeers: Utterly devoted to the King. Again, abides by the traditional definition of honor. Later, swears his life into the service of the church.

How about another: Will Turner from Pirates of the Carribean. Extremely disciplined. At least initially equates law and goodness (cf. the whole discussion of whether his father could be both a pirate and a good man--his initial answer was "no.") Very conscious of social roles and conventions. ("How many times must I ask you to call me Elizabeth" "At least once more Miss Swan.") Later in the movie, it could be argued that his alignment changed to neutral but he's as much of a swashbuckler in the beginning as in the end. His change of mind does not reflect a change in his style--fighting or otherwise.

Captain Blood: Initially sold into slavery for upholding his oath as a doctor when it was inconvenient to him. Did not join the rebellion against the king despite being obviously sympathetic. After gaining the captaincy of the pirate vessel, behaves with honor and decorum in his treatment of prisoners. IIRC, refuses to attack English vessels. (Still a loyal citizen despite his exile and unjust treatment). Returns to the service of his country as a Privateer as soon as William and Mary take power in England.

There's plenty of room to argue over the alignments of all of these characters but I think the summaries above are sufficient to show that one could create a swashbuckler who would be instantly recognizable as a swashbuckling hero in the genre and would be instantly categorized as lawful in D&D terms.

Absolute loyalty to king and country coupled with a prickly sense of honor and respect for aristocratic priviledge (whether or not the character is an aristocrat) would be a good start.

First, it seems troubling that you've picked LN as the alignment, given the general chaos of the swashbuckler. I'd make that LN mean that he has some incredible loyalty to something (friends, the captain, his country, whatever). Second, the stats you pick depend upon the campaign style, but you can't go wrong with Dex and Cha for a pirate type (a low Wis might be good, depending on the personality you're after).

As far as asking how I'd play the character, it depends entirely upon context. What are the other PCs like? What kind of adventures is he going on?

Skills and feats follow from the same questions.

Dave

 

[Aluvial]

Hmm - I'm playing a Human Swashbuckler at the moment.

His stats are Str 13, Dex 15, Con 9, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 14. (Those were rolled on 4d6).

You still need some strength - if just so you don't become encumbered with a chain shirt. For the first couple of levels, the majority of your attacks will be with a rapier (single), not TWF. Once you reach 3rd level, TWF becomes an option - and indeed, almost a necessity to take advantage of the bonus to damage.

Keeping your AC high is difficult, but important.

Remember, you need a 15 Dex for TWF!

May I suggest the following build?
(28 point buy, as required)

Human Swashbuckler
Str 13 Dex 15 Con 10 Int 15 Wis 8 Cha 13

Atk: Rapier +4 melee (1d6+1/18-20)

Skills: Balance +6, Bluff +5, Climb +5, Diplomacy +5, Escape Artist +6, Jump +5, Sense Motive +3, Tumble +6
Feats: Weapon Focus (rapier), Weapon Finesse, Combat Expertise.

At 2nd level, the increase in skills to "synergy" levels will make them:
L2 Skills: Balance +9, Bluff +6, Diplomacy +10, Escape Artist +7, Jump +8, Sense Motive +4, Tumble +9.

At 3rd level, your feat should be Two Weapon Fighting.
At 4th level, I'd increase your Int to improve damage, but it could also be Dex.

The Complete Warrior swashbuckler is an effective fighter and diplomat, with some excellent manuevering skills. You're not quite front-line material, due to an inferior AC, but you're pretty good!

Cheers!

Thanks for the help Merric. Good choices too. I like the TWF deal, but have wondered about the Expertise.

Is that for defensive measures only? Or does it lead to Feats that I'm not sure about (I know the one's in the PH, not many others).

Aluvial