Bestow Curse and ability damage.

[Chronosome]

Hey, all. Long time no read.

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated:

Let's say you wack a bad, bad man with a successful bestow
curse spell, lowering his Constitution to 4 (assuming it was 10).

Now, let's say through a poison spell, actual poison, or creepy
supernatural ability Bad Bad Man takes 4 points of temporary
Constitution damage. Is he dead? Or does the bestow curse
"safety cap" still apply because it's a constant effect?

Keep in mind bestow curse's duration is permanent, not
instantaneous, and it doesn't do damage, it just lowers the ability.

Any ideas? Thanks.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Ability Drained
The character has permanently lost 1 or more ability score points. The character cannot regain these points through natural healing or the passage of time. A character with Strength 0 falls to the ground and is helpless. A character with Dexterity 0 is paralyzed. A character with Constitution 0 is dead. A character with Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma 0 is unconscious.

Now that I've read your whole post I'll make a response that actually addresses your question.

I think the character would have 1 Con because the curse can't lower the character's Con below 1, and it's a permanent affect which says that it is an "effective" -6 to Con that can't send Con to 0.

I would let them live.

--Rash Spikey

 

[dcollins]

Yeah, actually, the spell doesn't say that it's an "ability drain", "permanent ability damage", or "temporary ability damage"... it's something else (not actually defined), an "effective decrease".

My intuition says that this means that the ability isn't really lowered, just that the character has to act like it's lowered. Hence, in this case, let 'em live.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Wow, dcollins and I agree on something.

--Disagreeable Spikey

 

[Chronosome]

And I agree with you. Now to take this to the DM...

 

[Artoomis]

Devil's Advocate time:

If the spell "effectively" lowers you con, then isn't your Con lowered for all purposes (but not below 1). Seems to me it is.

Now, assuming your Con is effectively 4, if it gets lowered four more points soemhow, I'd say that's pretty much death. If the magic of the curse saved you, that would be odd, indeed. For, you see, the curse did NOT lower your score to "0" - the other effect did that very nicely, thank you very much.

Now, if applied in the other order, you get a different result. you are drained (or whatever) to a Con of 6, then cursed. You can only go to 1, then.

The important thing is that the curse does prevent your con from going below 1, it merely states that the curse itself cannot lower your Con below 1 - no reason why something else couldn't do that. Thus, the curse itself cannot kill you, but something esle easily could - like the lost hit points or another Con drain of some sort.

So I say the Bad, Bad Man (tm) has passed on, gone to the other side, kicked the bucket, deceased, met his demise, departed, expired, passed away, perished, succumbed to his fate, popped off, checked out, croaked, bit the dust, breathed his last, cashed in, gave up his ghost, went to his grave, met his Maker , passed on to the Great Beyond, turned up his toes, ceased to exist.

In a word, "died."

 

[Artoomis]

Another, perhaps better, example.

Lets say you start with a Con of 7. You are cursed down to a 1. Then you get drained for 6 more.

Oh, but wait, you are cursed, so the 6 come retroactively off the curse, instead of you. So you live. Does that not strike you as wrong?

 

[Xahn'Tyr]

Just to even out the votes, I agree with Arty. The order matters. I'll also toss in that ability score damage can stack with itself, so toss three Curses and a drop of poison and that's all she wrote.

 

[Chronosome]

It's tricky, I'll admit...I also see your point, Arty...hmmm....

Xahn'Tyr: The curse isn't damage. It's a "decrease" that can't stack
with itself. Two bestow curses (on the same attribute) won't do
anything spectacular.

 

[dcollins]

Wow, dcollins and I agree on something.

Well, if you and are Artoomis are on either side of an argument, I guess I have no choice but to agree with one of you.