Big countries vs. small countries

[Jdvn1]

Sure. But you don't drive it as part of your daily routine (to get to work, to buy groceries, to drop the kids off at school - for those that have them). The daily "bubble" is probably similar in size, and the mind tends to think in terms of the daily bubble.

Occasional longer distance trips - you'd be more likely to drive them than I would due to the lack of long straight roads here, but we're not less likely to travel them. I don't consider it a major undertaking to catch a train or a plane.

Maybe it's better summarised as "we'd be willing to drive less far"; but that's not a function of country size, it's a function of traffic density, winding roads, and fuel prices (as you mentioned). I think I'm just as willing to travel 500 miles as you are; I'd just choose not to drive it. But a country's borders doesn't affect that - it's just an arbitrary line. If where you want to go is on the other side of it, you travel over it; nobody's constrained by a wall (well, not anymore, anyway).

Anyway, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything; it's not like it matters. Just saying I don't subscribe to that school of thought, and I'm not convinced that most people do.

More on the topic:
In Houston, 20-30 minutes is probably a pretty normal amount of time to get to where ever you're going--say, to visit a friend or go to a restaurant.
My Iowa friends consider 15 minutes to be painfully long.

Bubbles aren't nation-specific.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Anecdotes? Sure...

I've encountered Europeans who wanted to see the Statue of Liberty, the Gateway Arch, The Grand Canyon, Yosemite and the Golden Gate Bridge in a 2 week road trip.

I know Americans who goggle at the thought that a town's new city hall might be twice as old as the USA.

And as for the transportation thing?

When we lived in Stuttgart (in the 1970's), we used to go to Frankfurt or even France (Strassbourg, usually) to go to McDonalds. Even today, I've been known to drive to Austin on day trips to from D/FW or San Antonio (80 miles)...or even drive the 35 mile distance between Dallas & Fort Worth to do lunch or go bowling. I've had friends who did 2 hour commutes (one way!) from Allen to North Dallas.

People in Europe simply don't travel like that unless it actually IS their job to travel. The Germans thought we were NUTS to travel that far just for some American-style cuisine. (Well, we were...)

 

[El Mahdi]

I've never believed that saying.

There will always be anecdotal exceptions, but the average person drives a similar to work and other regular destinations wherever he/she lives. Whatever the size of the country surrounding us, we tend to live in our own "bubble" of that country. Both geographically and temporally. ...

As someone who's lived on both continents (grew up in Michigan, USA...moved to Mildenhall, UK when I was 21 for 6 1/2 years). I'd say there's a definite difference. I'd agree that daily commutes are probably about the same anywhere, relative to where you live (big city, rural, etc.). But, long distance driving trips are considerably different. In most parts of the states, highways make long distance travel much easier. For example, I can drive from my home here in Florida to my parents house in Michigan (just a little over 900 miles, as the crow flies...) in about 20 hours driving time (1 1/2 days travel time). In Europe that would be the equivalent of driving from London to Venice. Can that be done in a day and a half?

My friends and I would never even mess with driving to Scotland. Too much of a hassle. We would rent a plane from the RAF Lakenheath Aero club (two of them had their pilots license) and fly up (Inverness). Took about two to three hours. I don't even want to imagine how long it would take to actually drive from Mildenhall to Inverness. Definitely not worth it for a two, or even three day, weekend.

200 miles by highway takes less than 3 hours. For a daily commute, yeah that's a bit much. But for a day or weekend trip, most Americans won't even think twice about a 200 mile drive.

...(Cue "I drive 9000 miles to work every day!" anecdotes! )

Up hill...both ways!

 

[Morrus]

Anecdotes? Sure...

I've encountered Europeans who wanted to see the Statue of Liberty, the Gateway Arch, The Grand Canyon, Yosemite and the Golden Gate Bridge in a 2 week road trip.

You've met some pretty dumb Europeans, then! Nobody with an ounce of intelligence would think that realistic.

I'm sure such people exist, but anecdotes of ridiculous people don't represent what "Europeans" think.

When we lived in Stuttgart (in the 1970's), we used to go to Frankfurt or even France (Strassbourg, usually) to go to McDonalds. Even today, I've been known to drive to Austin on day trips to from D/FW or San Antonio (80 miles)...or even drive the 35 mile distance between Dallas & Fort Worth to do lunch or go bowling. I've had friends who did 2 hour commutes (one way!) from Allen to North Dallas.

But I happily do larger than 80-mile day trips to see my parents. I have friends now who do two-hour commutes.

People in Europe simply don't travel like that unless it actually IS their job to travel.

I disagree. Yes, we do.

 

[Morrus]

But, long distance driving trips are considerably different. In most parts of the states, highways make long distance travel much easier. For example, I can drive from my home here in Florida to my parents house in Michigan (just a little over 900 miles, as the crow flies...) in about 20 hours driving time (1 1/2 days travel time). In Europe that would be the equivalent of driving from London to Venice. Can that be done in a day and a half?

No, but why are we insisting that one has to drive everywhere? We're discussing travelling distances, not driving distances. The choice of transportation is irrelevant.

No, I wouldn't drive 20 hours unless I had no choice. That's what trains and planes are for. But I certainly wouldn't balk at travelling that distance.

I'll concede that the US is more conducive to distance driving than Europe is simply by the lack of "interstates" (is that what you call the big roads?) It doesn't therefore follow, though, that Europeans won't travel those distances or think they're anything special; we just choose different methods of transportation.

If I want to visit someone 900 miles away, I do so. I jump on a train or a plane.

We live in "the world" now. The English Channel is no more a barrier than the end of my street is. It can be crossed easily, quickly, and cheaply in a whole number of ways (trains, ships, hovercraft, planes) often for ludicrously low prices - like under £10. One is not walled in by the edges of one's country.

There is one notable difference, though - people in Europe don't move so far to live as people in the US. They'll happily wander out of their own countries, but they tend to live in the same country all their life - for a variety of reasons, including cultural and legal. So relatives won't tend to be more than a few hundred miles away at least, whereas in the US they could easily be a couple of thousand miles away. But that's not because of the distances involved, it's because they don't want to live in another country. They don't think "I don't want to live in Italy [or wherever] because it's too far away", they think "I don't want to live in Italy because I like my own country". But they'll happily visit.

 

[Morrus]

One thing that might be going on here is a generational thing. I gather than people used to be a lot less socially mobile than they are now. The abundance of cheap travel and loosening of border controls in Europe means my generation really doesn't see distance as an issue these days. People will happily cross Europe for a weekend city break and such - Greece, for example, is about 1500 miles away for me. It's not considered a challenging distance in the slightest.

 

[Piratecat]

No, but why are we insisting that one has to drive everywhere? We're discussing travelling distances, not driving distances. The choice of transportation is irrelevant.

Two reasons, I think.
- 1. Driving feels like you yourself are accomplishing something, in a way that taking a train or plane does not. It's linked to feelings of independence and self-reliance. See, letting someone else do the work is cheating.
- 2. Train travel in the US sucks monkey butt, so it's hard for us to consider vehicles other than cars.

One is not walled in by the edges of one's country.

I feel like we are, more than folks in the EU are. Trying to travel into Mexico or Canada, especially for work, can be a giant pain. Even driving over the border can result in some long waits at the checkpoint.

 

[ggroy]

I feel like we are, more than folks in the EU are. Trying to travel into Mexico or Canada, especially for work, can be a giant pain. Even driving over the border can result in some long waits at the checkpoint.

The wonders of traveling through East Germany to reach West Berlin, during the Cold War.

 

[ggroy]

One is not walled in by the edges of one's country.

Even more weird was navigating inside a walled-in city, such as West Berlin and living near the Berlin Wall. (I use to visit relatives who lived in West Berlin during the Cold War era). Going anywhere in town, was like a maze of trying to not run into the Wall.

 

[TwinBahamut]

Two reasons, I think.
- 1. Driving feels like you yourself are accomplishing something, in a way that taking a train or plane does not. It's linked to feelings of independence and self-reliance. See, letting someone else do the work is cheating.
- 2. Train travel in the US sucks monkey butt, so it's hard for us to consider vehicles other than cars.

While I don't really want to comment on the first point, the second point is very true. For example, look at the trips my brother SkyOdin was referring to in his earlier post. The trip from Sacramento to San Francisco by train is probably the single most plausible rail trip in California, but it is still going to be at least an hour longer than any comparable trip by car (if you dodge traffic), and has a lot of complications and limitations. And unless the proposed high-speed railway line connecting the bay area to LA actually gets built, it is literally impossible to make a trip to LA or San Diego via train.

I feel like we are, more than folks in the EU are. Trying to travel into Mexico or Canada, especially for work, can be a giant pain. Even driving over the border can result in some long waits at the checkpoint.

Yeah, the US has a lot more border issues compared to Europe. Of course, the boundaries between states are a lot more malleable than European borders. To put some of the cultural differences between the US and Europe in perspective, some of you might be interested to know that either 2009 or 2010 happened to be the very first year in the history of California as a state where more than 50% of California's population was actually born in the state. To say that the US population is more mobile than the European population regarding where people choose to move and live is a gross understatement.