Big countries vs. small countries

[Morrus]

Two reasons, I think.
- 1. Driving feels like you yourself are accomplishing something, in a way that taking a train or plane does not. It's linked to feelings of independence and self-reliance. See, letting someone else do the work is cheating.
- 2. Train travel in the US sucks monkey butt, so it's hard for us to consider vehicles other than cars.

I'll not argue with that; but I'll maintain that "Americans value driving more than other forms of transport" does not equate to "Europeans think 200 miles is a long way". Especially these days.

I feel like we are, more than folks in the EU are. Trying to travel into Mexico or Canada, especially for work, can be a giant pain. Even driving over the border can result in some long waits at the checkpoint.

Sure, I agree that you are more so. I was speaking for Europeans who are able and willing to travel freely across the continent.

I was trying to point out that just because each country is smaller than the US doesn't mean that people aren't willing to travel the same distances. The fact that it crosses borders isn't a hindrance.

To say that the US population is more mobile than the European population regarding where people choose to move and live is a gross understatement.

Absolutely. There's a world of difference between visiting other countries and emigrating to one. I'd never dream of living in another country, but I'm very willing to spend time in them.

 

[nerfherder]

You've met some pretty dumb Europeans, then! Nobody with an ounce of intelligence would think that realistic.

I'm sure such people exist, but anecdotes of ridiculous people don't represent what "Europeans" think.

I disagree - I think if you asked a bunch of British strangers at random, you'd find that they didn't really grasp the enormity of the US. I don't think that they would really have much idea about how different many of the States are from each other, either. To most Brits, the US is New York shopping trips and Florida Disneyland/Universal Studios.

 

[Bullgrit]

RE: Travelling by train -- Once you get to the destination, how do you get around there? That's what's always stumped me with the idea of travelling by train.

Taxi? I've only ever ridden in a taxi in NYC and Sweden.

Of course, the boundaries between states are a lot more malleable than European borders.

I don't know about European borders, but here, the only way you know you're entering another state is because the sign on the side of the road says, "Welcome to South Carolina."

Bullgrit

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

RE: Travelling by train -- Once you get to the destination, how do you get around there? That's what's always stumped me with the idea of travelling by train.

Taxi? I've only ever ridden in a taxi in NYC and Sweden.

Other public transport? When my family went from RI to Washington, D.C. for a vacation, we took the train. Then from there we used the subway system or whatever it is ("MARC," just like my name ) and it worked out fairly well. Even after mom injured her ankles with a mistep and I was pushing her around in a wheelchair (only mentioning because I was like ~14 or so at the time), it was never terribly hard to get around.

Granted, not many places in the U.S. have public transportation systems like that. But I just think that goes to show how much of a "vicious cycle" it can be. If where you're going has inadequate public transport, like you said, it's kind of silly to take a train there and then get stranded. The less numerous and available the public transportation, the less appealing what options are available become, IMHO.

 

[Morrus]

RE: Travelling by train -- Once you get to the destination, how do you get around there? That's what's always stumped me with the idea of travelling by train.

Taxi? I've only ever ridden in a taxi in NYC and Sweden.

Yeah. Taxis, busses, coaches, subway systems, etc. Depending on how much luggage you have of course. We use public transport a lot. Unless you're going to some remote rural place, there will be an abundance of options.

 

[Rykion]

I don't know about European borders, but here, the only way you know you're entering another state is because the sign on the side of the road says, "Welcome to South Carolina."

Bullgrit

That's true of the vast majority of States, but entering California is an exception. You can be expected to be stopped and asked about plants/animals you have when crossing into California. Many fruits, houseplants, and pets like ferrets, hedgehogs, and rodents will be confiscated if you want to enter California.

 

[nerfherder]

Yeah. Taxis, busses, coaches, subway systems, etc. Depending on how much luggage you have of course. We use public transport a lot. Unless you're going to some remote rural place, there will be an abundance of options.

And, of course, you could hire a car

I'm going to be travelling 300 miles to a friend's wedding in August, and it looks like we'll be flying then hiring a car for the weekend. Much nicer than the 5.5 hours drive each way predicted by Google maps (and probably cheaper, too).

 

[drothgery]

Two reasons, I think.
- 2. Train travel in the US sucks monkey butt, so it's hard for us to consider vehicles other than cars.

Even if Amtrak ran the best possible trains over dedicated passenger rail lines, train travel would be impractical for most routes within the US. The geography just doesn't work; there are very few cities that are both far enough apart that it makes more sense to take a train than drive, and close enough that it makes more sense to take a train than fly.

 

[El Mahdi]

No, but why are we insisting that one has to drive everywhere? ...

These are all really good points. I guess you've hit on the biggest American conceit when it comes to this...we're an automobile culture. I didn't even realize it at the time, but as soon as I read Umbrans saying, that's exactly what I thought of: Driving.

This doesn't always hold true everywhere in the states, but for the most part, busses are seen as cheap/poor transportation. You only use them if you have to. Trains just aren't common enough anymore except in certain metro areas and maybe the east and north east (New York, Massachusetts, D.C., etc.). And air travel has gotten so expensive, and all the added fees they throw in now, that it's gotten too expensive to use unless you have to. It all just kind of reinforces the driving aspect. Our cars are still a symbol of having the freedom to just go wherever you want, whenever you want.

I once looked into taking a train to my parents house (from Florida to Michigan). Amtrack runs from where I live. But the trip would have cost about 5 times more than the gas and a hotel needed to drive, and would have taken about three days (vs. the 1 1/2 to drive). And flying...forget about it. Unless you've purchased the tickets 6 months in advance, driving is probably going to be cheaper...and that's not even adding in the cost of a rental car at the destination.

I guess it's just a default American assumption.

One thing that might be going on here is a generational thing. I gather than people used to be a lot less socially mobile than they are now. The abundance of cheap travel and loosening of border controls in Europe means my generation really doesn't see distance as an issue these days. People will happily cross Europe for a weekend city break and such - Greece, for example, is about 1500 miles away for me. It's not considered a challenging distance in the slightest.

Yeah, another good point. My experiences in Europe are from the early to mid nineties. Things have definitely changed a bit since then.

 

[drothgery]

And air travel has gotten so expensive, and all the added fees they throw in now, that it's gotten too expensive to use unless you have to.

[...]

I once looked into taking a train to my parents house (from Florida to Michigan). Amtrack runs from where I live. But the trip would have cost about 5 times more than the gas and a hotel needed to drive, and would have taken about three days (vs. the 1 1/2 to drive). And flying...forget about it. Unless you've purchased the tickets 6 months in advance, driving is probably going to be cheaper...and that's not even adding in the cost of a rental car at the destination.

The nickel and diming with silly fees that most airlines are doing now has driven costs up some, as did post-9/11 security fees, but this was decades of air travel getting tremendously cheaper (especially over the 1980s and 1990s).

I mean, I don't know where you live, but I just plugged in 'I want to take a weekend trip in August from Tampa to Detroit' into Orbitz, and that came back with $165 for any weekend trip there. That's not a lot; it's probably less than you'd spend on gas and a hotel driving (though add in a spouse and/or kids and it changes the equation). San Diego to Denver, which I fly a few times a year, is rarely over $250 for me (though it helps that Southwest flies that route, as well as two other airlines). And until you're less than 3 weeks out, airfares are as likely to go down as up in my experience.