Big Fat Orcus. What's the *offical* status of his lair?

[dead]

I've got the module "H4: Throne of Bloodstone" and inside there's a depiction of Orcus' palace and the city that surrounds it. I was just wondering if this is Orcus' *official* palace or was Orcus' realm (and dwelling) updated by Planescape and recent 3E products?

Also, in which product was Orcus' death by the hand of Kiraniselee (sp?) first touched on. Was there any adventure modules that used this momentous event as a backdrop?

I mean, I know there's the module "Modron March" and "Dead Gods" which talk about Orcus *coming back* from the dead but I'm wondering if there were any similar modules which revolved around his actual murder *as it happened*, so to speak.

It's just that this momentous incident -- the death of Orcus!!!!! -- seemed to pass me by somehow and I only found out *after the fact* when I read the PS modules mentioned above by Monte Cook.

Thanks.

 

[Monte At Home]

Orcus "died" in Planes of Chaos, back in the days when demons and names like Orcus were forbidden to designers (he wasn't actually "named" when his death was described, but we all knew who the author meant). I don't know exactly the thought process that went into having him die, but a part of me likes to think that the kindly designer offed him because it was better for the old boy to be dead than to see TSR do a supplement about the Abyss without him (and without the term "demons"). There were no adventures surrounding it. Poor Orcus got done in off stage.

But then things got better. Truth be told, what really happened was that the Planescape team realized that they were operating under the radar of those forces arrayed against our use of Orcus and words like "demon." So we got to bring him back. This happened in Great Modron March and was described more fully in Dead Gods.

Dead Gods, while referring to some things from H4 (like his sword, and like his right hand man, a balor who's name now escapes me), described not his Abyssal realm (at least not much) but a secret fortress at the "Bottom of the Multiverse" in the Negative Energy Plane.

I was happy to have brought him back. Orcus rocks.

 

[Shemeska]

Orcus's city in the Abyss is detailed in the 'Planes of Chaos' box set IIRC.

His actual murder is never really detailed in a module or sourcebook, Planescape just started off as omitting him and referring to a 'unknown demon prince of the undead' who was killed by kiaranselee. All of it was of course just setting the stage for his return eventually, including some of the events in 'Return to the Tomb of Horrors' as well as 'Great Modron March', 'Dead Gods' and the earliest forshadowing of it all in 'Doors to the Unknown'.

Edit: Well if I get beaten to the punch on this one by someone, best it be Monte. Heh.

 

[dead]

Poor Orcus got done in off stage.

Ya, I thought it was a bit that way.

Orcus does rock! Thanks for bringing him back Monte!

 

[Alzrius]

I've got the module "H4: Throne of Bloodstone" and inside there's a depiction of Orcus' palace and the city that surrounds it. I was just wondering if this is Orcus' *official* palace or was Orcus' realm (and dwelling) updated by Planescape and recent 3E products?

Actually, the answer to both questions seems to be yes.

H4 was the first product to describe Orcus's home realm. The city the adventure depicts is called Orcusgate. With that said, the city isn't ever shown again in any later products. Planescape supplements talking about Thanatos (the 113th layer of the Abyss) say his "capital" city is called Naratyr. Orcusgate hasn't been mentioned since, so the official status of his layer (from 3E's Manual of the Planes and Book of Vile Darkness) is that he retook Thanatos and is again ruling there from Naratyr.

As it stands, he retook the city without a fight (at least, none worth mentioning). Kiaransalee had heard he was back and fled in fear back to the Demonweb Pits before he actually returned (not counting when he, as Tenebrous, personally returned there to kidnap the drow vampire Kestod to try and find his Wand again).

Also, in which product was Orcus' death by the hand of Kiraniselee (sp?) first touched on. Was there any adventure modules that used this momentous event as a backdrop?

I had thought something about it was hinted in Kiaransalee's entry in Monstrous Mythology, but considering that I can't even find my copy of that now, I'm likely misremembering. Monte is probably correct here.

Truth to tell, an adventure with the PCs being involved in the death of Orcus would have been hard to do, IMHO. Circumstantial evidence hints that Orcus was a Lesser deity when he died, and Kiaransalee was a demigod at the time, so the PCs would have had to be of epic level (maybe, oh, 100th level?) to have any major impact here. And truthfully, I can see many parties being just as happy to let the two fight, since either way it's one less evil deity in the multiverse.

I mean, I know there's the module "Modron March" and "Dead Gods" which talk about Orcus *coming back* from the dead but I'm wondering if there were any similar modules which revolved around his actual murder *as it happened*, so to speak.

As it happens, Orcus died quite a while ago, while we know he was alive a thousand years ago (from circumstantial evidence in Return to the Tomb of Horrors), he could have died right after that, or centuries later, but either way the clues left throughout late-2E products about him make it clear his death wasn't a recent thing.

Which only makes it more difficult to process that, in the Forgotten Realms, he died in 1358 DR (and remember, in 2E it was a unified multiverse).

As an aside, try checking out A Brief History of Orcus, a free file about Orcus in (A)D&D that I did for the Necromancer Games website. It's mostly accurate, though, being the author, I can now see quite a few things I'd add/change to it if I were to do it over. It's still a good resource though.

 

[Alzrius]

a balor who's name now escapes me

Glyphimor.

 

[dead]

H4 was the first product to describe Orcus's home realm. The city the adventure depicts is called Orcusgate. With that said, the city isn't ever shown again in any later products. Planescape supplements talking about Thanatos (the 113th layer of the Abyss) say his "capital" city is called Naratyr. Orcusgate hasn't been mentioned since, so the official status of his layer (from 3E's Manual of the Planes and Book of Vile Darkness) is that he retook Thanatos and is again ruling there from Naratyr.

Yeah, I thought there was a discrepency somewhere.

Thankyou for all the info.

 

[green slime]

It is possible for a city to have two distinct names, and yet be the same place. I wouldn't put it past those demon types, to spread confusion amongst mortal scholars.

You don't need to look far in our own realm to see instances where places are renamed, and yet for a while are referred to by their old names, and even renamed yet again: Saint Petersburg, Petrograd, Leningrad, Saint Petersburg... Ceylon, Sri Lanka, ... Ulan Bator, Urga, Kulun

 

[Gez]

Or, in a classical fashion, "Orcusgate" is the name people who've heard of Orcus' city gave it; while Naratyr is the actual name of the city.

Kinda like all those "bone devil/osyluth" name conventions.

 

[FireLance]

Or, in a classical fashion, "Orcusgate" is the name people who've heard of Orcus' city gave it; while Naratyr is the actual name of the city.

Really? I thought "Orcusgate" was the Abyssal scandal which erupted when it was discovered that Demogorgon's left head had sold magic weapons to Orcus which were used to fight the forces of Demogorgon's right head.