Bigger creatures grappling small ones

[Urbannen]

Last night a troll grabbed my character's cat familiar. According to the rules, it was a grapple, which means you use the grapple rules. However, the grapple rules made no sense.

Two problems:

1. When a Large creature grapples a Tiny creature, the Large creature is considered grappled, meaning it loses Dex to AC and it can't deliver AoOs. But a troll can hold a cat in one hand!

2. When a larger creature grapples a smaller creature, it has to enter that creature's space. But larger creatures are usually so much bigger and stronger that they should have no problem pulling a smaller creature into their space once they've grabbed hold.

My DM and I agreed that if a creature grapples a creature three size categories smaller that it should not be considered grappled itself. We also think that if a larger creature grapples a smaller creature, it can automatically pull that creature into its space, rather than having to enter the smaller creature's space.

 

[Caliban]

Last night a troll grabbed my character's cat familiar. According to the rules, it was a grapple, which means you use the grapple rules. However, the grapple rules made no sense.

Two problems:

1. When a Large creature grapples a Tiny creature, the Large creature is considered grappled, meaning it loses Dex to AC and it can't deliver AoOs. But a troll can hold a cat in one hand!

2. When a larger creature grapples a smaller creature, it has to enter that creature's space. But larger creatures are usually so much bigger and stronger that they should have no problem pulling a smaller creature into their space once they've grabbed hold.

My DM and I agreed that if a creature grapples a creature three size categories smaller that it should not be considered grappled itself. We also think that if a larger creature grapples a smaller creature, it can automatically pull that creature into its space, rather than having to enter the smaller creature's space.

Actually, it's not that unrealistic. Have you ever tried to hold a cat that didn't want to be held? It takes both hands and most of your upper body or it will quickly get away, leaving you with nothing but bloody scratches.

However, you can take a -20 on your grapple check to hold the creature with one hand, and not be considered grappled yourself. This would represent you getting ahold of the cat by the scruff of the neck.

Improved grab let's you pull a creature into your square when you make a grapple check.

 

[Urbannen]

Actually, the example of the cat isn't relevant, since a cat is only two sizes smaller than a human. A better example would be a human trying to grapple a mouse that didn't want to be held. That's the relative difference between a troll and a cat.

That said, if you do successfully grapple a cat, it's pretty easy to draw it into your space - but you would be considered grappled while you struggle with it.

 

[Norfleet]

The more amusing example of a huge size discrepancy in grappling would be a human attempting to grapple with an ant.

 

[The Souljourner]

Troll grappling a cat just needs to take the -20 that lets him do it with just one hand. There are rules for this. The cat has a -12 grapple check, the troll has a +14. Even taking the -20, the troll still has a +6 over the cat. That's pretty darn good for the troll.

-The Souljourner

 

[Urbannen]

Hmm, you have a point.