Blade Barrier - Overpowered? I think so.
- Thread starter Anabstercorian
- Start date
Shard O'Glase
First Post
maddman75 said:
Your groups sorceress might not have it but blade barrier and slow fog is just nasty. Those in slow fog move at 1/10th thier movement, if you drop them either the same time(ready action) or slow fog 1st, thier really isn't any escape. I hope somone who is caught by this or a wall of forve has a wand of D-Door handy, or a helm of teleportation.
my muck up initiative
I think this spell is an example of how people complicate things for no reason .
people play on and continue with initiative as normal. You deal with the saves on each char's action through to the caster action. Anyone in the barrier at that point takes auto damage at the start of there action from then on.
Why this way? Because it is an action and choice to leave the area. If someone says " I want to pick up the vorpal sword I dropped and they move to the edge of the barrier " I would say sure go ahead you can do that, then roll the damage.
Seriously this is how I se it:
The next char in the barrier gets asked what they will do.
answer is "move to edge of barrier like my ass is on fire".
If they make the save then they moved quick enogh to avoid the blade as it is manifesting in this first round. I they don't save then they still ran but got hit.
If they don't leave immidiatly then they take full damage no save.
What they can do then depends on what the move intailed. If they reamin in, they take full damage and then full damage again and again untill they leave.
This makes escaping the barrier a REAL EVENT THAT HAS TO BE ROLEPLAYED.
E.G other chars may be on the edge waiting with spears set vs charge $%^^%&% .....joke but possible
You may even get held back by someone with spell resistance!!
the possibilities go on and on and are fun.
I think this spell is an example of how people complicate things for no reason .
people play on and continue with initiative as normal. You deal with the saves on each char's action through to the caster action. Anyone in the barrier at that point takes auto damage at the start of there action from then on.
Why this way? Because it is an action and choice to leave the area. If someone says " I want to pick up the vorpal sword I dropped and they move to the edge of the barrier " I would say sure go ahead you can do that, then roll the damage.
Seriously this is how I se it:
The next char in the barrier gets asked what they will do.
answer is "move to edge of barrier like my ass is on fire".
If they make the save then they moved quick enogh to avoid the blade as it is manifesting in this first round. I they don't save then they still ran but got hit.
If they don't leave immidiatly then they take full damage no save.
What they can do then depends on what the move intailed. If they reamin in, they take full damage and then full damage again and again untill they leave.
This makes escaping the barrier a REAL EVENT THAT HAS TO BE ROLEPLAYED.
E.G other chars may be on the edge waiting with spears set vs charge $%^^%&% .....joke but possible
You may even get held back by someone with spell resistance!!
the possibilities go on and on and are fun.
Victim said:
Like what? During an encounter, there aren't a whole lot of things someone can do about it. The only thing I know that can protect against it in a pinch is Negative Energy Protection, which isn't usually a top choice of spellcasters to memorize and certainly isn't available to everybody.
One concern I have is that enervation can kill so easily without a save. It is easy to kill anything with 12 levels/HD or less with this spell in a couple of actions, even faster with haste added in. A party with more than one sorcerer could devastate even the most powerful monsters with this one spell.
Personally, I advocate a Fortitude save to negate for Enervation, which keeps it balanced.
Re: my muck up initiative
Doing it that way makes the spell far more powerful than it's supposed to be. I would play it by the book.
By the book:
If you're in the area *when the spell is cast*, Reflex save to escape the area. If you enter the area any time after the casting for any reason, you take full damage and get no save whatsoever.
ZR said:
Doing it that way makes the spell far more powerful than it's supposed to be. I would play it by the book.
By the book:
If you're in the area *when the spell is cast*, Reflex save to escape the area. If you enter the area any time after the casting for any reason, you take full damage and get no save whatsoever.
Shard O'Glase said:
What is Slow Fog?
If that is another Forgotten Realms spell, then your argument is invalid, mainly because EVERYTHING in Forgotten Realms is unbalanced.
Then again, why would this Slow Fog reducing your movement do anything regarding a Blade Barrier? Does the spell negate Reflex saves or something? If it doesn't, then the spell works as normal, and regardless of Slow Fog, you get a Reflex save to avoid all damage if you're in the casting area.
Shard O'Glase
First Post
Anubis said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. I defiently think fort negates is too much of a limiter though I have been bouncing aorund the idea of fort save for 1/2. 1-4 negative levels is usually far from killing someone, sure multiple shots might mean death no save, but it isn't insant death, heck it's effects are less than a simple hold spell, so it shouldn't be save negates like a actually save or die spell.
Also I think people overlook how much being a ranged touch attack limits things, with a wizards bab even an AC of 10 isn't guarenteed, and if the foe has any deflection, dex, dodge etc bonuses to ac and the touch ac is 15 or higher it actually becomes a hard shot to make for a wizard.
Further more once you are talking multiple spells, then you have to ask what are the odds of anyone saving 3 times in row even in their good saves, so is this actually more potent than a real save or die. Or how much damage could someone dish out with 3 or 4 spells of the same level, is that in the instant death range. Heck a double mepowered Magic missile cast 3 times would to on average 102 points of damage, that is instant death for virtually all 12 HD creatures that don't have cons like a dragons. And for enervation do take out a 12 HD creature in 3 shots you'd have to hit all 3 times and roll max all 3 times. The average to take out a 12hd creature would be 5 shots with enevation. 5 double empowere Magic missiles would do on average 170 points of damage. So I just don't think a save to negates is needed. I do think it might need a save for 1/2 because it is avery potent 4th level spell as is.
