Blade Barrier Question

[Stalker0]

Heh, I had never noticed that Blade Barrier is a Good domain spell. I like to think of Heaven as being filled with angels, warmth, light, a sense of well-being...oh, and huge spinning maelstroms of flesh-ripping razor blades. Be careful, Aunt Julia!

My group had accused me of always playing selfish, dastardly character, so for a 1 time adventure I played mother melanor, the saint of saints.

She used BB a lot, but only on the bad guys

 

[The Souljourner]

So you get free movement if someone casts a blade barrier on you? That seems rather odd. I could see where that could be used to benefit a party. Someone is escaping and is too far away to grapple in one round? Well, just cast Blade Barrier behind the rogue and (with his excellent save) he'll get propelled towards his quarry so that he can catch him on his turn!

According to the rules as they are written, yes. Of course he could roll a 1 and get his equipment chopped into little pieces, but that's not very likely, right?

And the damage is done on the caster's initiative? That will work really well with the Renewed Focus spell. I cast blade barrier and damage everyone, then refoucs and do damage to them again before they have a chance to get out of the way! Cool.

Sorry, slightly inaccurate wording on my part - it's done every round on the same initiative number as when it was cast, so if it was cast on initiative 10, every following round that the BB stays in existence, at the beginning of initiative 10, it'll do its damage.

Don't look at me, these are just the rules as they are written. Not my fault they're wonky as hell.

-The Souljourner

 

[0-hr]

According to the rules as they are written, yes. Of course he could roll a 1 and get his equipment chopped into little pieces, but that's not very likely, right?

The rules as written on which page again? I'm thinking that you mean "the rules as interpreted by Souljourner". This does not look like involuntary movement to me, and so I see no reason for it to occur outside of the normal action sequence. They aren't being bull rushed, or falling in a pit. They aren't even being flung physically out of the blender. Instead, they are concsiously and purposefully exiting the area by the shortest route. You can only do that sort of movement on your turn. That is the "rules as interpreted by Ki Ryn".

And as for equipment, someone could roll a natural "1" and have a single piece of equipment make a save, yes. Not very likely, and not a big deal when it does occur (and also irrelavent to the discussion).

I agree with Stalker0 that this spell is wonky, and I'm still sticking with my original interpretation. Then again, I make all of the Mirror Images stay in the same 5ft square too

 

[Hypersmurf]

Then again, I make all of the Mirror Images stay in the same 5ft square too

Hmm.

Doesn't that mean that instead of a 1 in N+1 chance of hitting the correct target (where N is the number of images), any opponent using a weapon has a 1 in 2 chance?

But the description says "each within 5 feet of at least one other figment or you". If you have four figments, they could end up strung out in a line 25' long.

-Hyp.

 

[0-hr]

But the description says "each within 5 feet of at least one other figment or you". If you have four figments, they could end up strung out in a line 25' long.

My house rule is "each within 5 feet of at least one other figment and you".

It's a big mass of moving and interchanging images, all within (or very near) the same square. The chances of striking an image (and everything else about the spell) is unchanged. All this does is make it much easier to adjucate on the battlemat.

If you let there be one image per square, and try to use figures to represent things, it gets wonky pretty quickly. The mage will try to control where his images in (and inevitably claim they can flank for him). Players will use metagame knowledge about 5ft steps and whatnot to figure out which is the real image. And someone will shoot the image way on the end (where the mage could not possibly have moved to after casting a spell) but then the random chance will say that really is the mage! Then someone will swing at an image 40ft away and random chance will say that is the real mage too! It's just goofy unless they all stay more-or-less in the same square.

But, anyway, that's a tangent so I'll leave it at that.

 

[IceBear]

I pretty much do the same thing for Mirror Image - just to save the headaches

IceBear

 

[smetzger]

I play Mirror Image with all images in the same 5 ft square also.

Back to BB:
If you make your save but your movement is slow enough that you cannot make it out of the AoE on your init, do you:
1) Automatically take damage the next round.
2) Take no damage the next round.
3) Get to make another save to avoid the damage.

I think by the rules it would be number 2. But I like option 3 better.

 

[0-hr]

Re: Re: Blade Barrier Question

I
If you make your save but your movement is slow enough that you cannot make it out of the AoE on your init,

from the spell description:

They can negate the damage with a successful Reflex saving throw, provided they can and do physically leave the area of the blades by the shortest possible route

If they can't leave the area, I do not think they get a save. Granted, it doesn't say "leave the area within one round", but that's how I would interpret it.

 

[The Souljourner]

The rules as written on which page again? I'm thinking that you mean "the rules as interpreted by Souljourner".

Ok ok, whatever. Rules are always open to interpretation. After all, it depends on what the definition of "is" is, right?

This does not look like involuntary movement to me, and so I see no reason for it to occur outside of the normal action sequence.

It has to take place outside of ordinary movement, otherwise you have people sitting around in a plane of spinning blades not taking damage.

They aren't being bull rushed, or falling in a pit. They aren't even being flung physically out of the blender. Instead, they are concsiously and purposefully exiting the area by the shortest route.

Yes, it's conscious...

You can only do that sort of movement on your turn.

Except in the case of blade barrier where it specifically says you move. *shrug* I agree, it's different from every other spell, but I think allowing people to dive out of the way while not on their turn makes a lot more sense than letting them sit in the blades and not take damage.

THis is my interpretation - if you make your save, you dive out of the area of effect before the blades are fully created.

It makes no sense your way - say a rogue makes his save and takes no damage as it is cast. He now has to move out of the area of effect on his turn. Just before his turn he is Held by another cleric. Now what? He wasn't able to move out, so he takes damage retroactively? Come on.

Once the barrier is in place, anything entering or passing through the blades automatically takes damage.

....what, except for the first turn when you can walk around with impunity because you made your save?

I agree with Stalker0 that this spell is wonky, and I'm still sticking with my original interpretation.

I *did* say it was wonky and didn't make a lot of sense. Oh well.

-The Souljourner

 

[IceBear]

I think the reason that you get people sitting inside a plane of spinning blades for awhile is because of the fact that we're using rounds. While it appears you have someone inside the blade barrier not taking damage, what really happens the actions occur almost simultaneously. I'd rather that than having someone involunatarily move. If I had the character move outside of his initiative, I'd take the distance moved away from them on his turn.

Same difference really.

IceBear