D&D 5E Blade Pact Warlocks and Conventional Wisdom

[doctorbadwolf]

The Blade Lock's problem is quite simple: "It's always better to Eldritch Blast".

Even you if choose this suboptimal option and get you charisma bonus or whatever, on your turn, if you're not engaged in melee combat, it's better to Eldritch Blast! You can get a taunt/mobility bonus/god's blessing or even the numbers of the lottery as a class feature and you'll still Eldritch Blast on your turn!

So if you want to "fix" the Blade Lock (and I'm using quotation marks because I'm not saying it needs to be fixed) you have give him a better attack option than Eldritch Blast.

Sans Invocations, attacking with a rapier is a better melee option than EB, until 5th level. With Invocations, it's about equal, in melee.

Any point about ranged vs melee is irrelevant, bc no one gets to shoot things with their sword. EB just becomes the bladelock's hand crossbow. NBD.

The problem with Blade Pact is that it's Invocations are taxes, and the other pacts' aren't. Blade Pact needs a little more kick right away, and the equivalent of cantrip scaling, or extra attack.

Being able to cast EB as a melee weapon attack would probably work, two, but might require complicated language to not be unbalanced.

 

[ppaladin123]

I feel like a valor bard is a better blade warlock, especially once magic secrets and battle magic come online.

 

[PrimevalSeeker]

All pacts would have been better off if they scaled across several levels.

 

[Gwarok]

I DM a campaign for my brother, it was originally a solo campaign, and he plays a blade pact warlock, and he works just fine. He's pretty solid in melee, uses med armor and shield, and for STR got his hand on(in) some Gauntlets of Ogre Power. Just hit 14th, his roommate wanted in on the action and plays a Paladin, they make a great team, not having any problems with combat utility or general versatility, and everyone seems to be having a lot of fun.

On a side note, when the paldain showed up, we were in the middle of a story arc about how vampires were taking over Baldur's Gate, and dammit if Paladins don't blunt the power of vampires almost completely. Oh well, a good DM, like a good player, has to roll with a few punches now and then.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I still believe blade pact is good enough for what it is worth. Same as other main melee characters you should really not put your highest stat in charisma but dexterity usually or maybe strength if you are a fiend warlock. You should also be more creative than default to the eldritch blast increasing invocations. You can do a lot better.
Armor of shadows and fiendish vigor make you resilient. Armor of agathys allows you to trade blows easily. Medium armor is not a lot better than armor if shadows to be honest. Making charisma your attack stat muddies your build to the point that it becomes uninteresting. I'd play a default blade pact warlock anytime without multiclassing or feat and be effective.

 

[Aldarc]

It will be interesting to see how the final form of the Hexblade Patron from UA will change this conversation, if any. But it also seems overly restrictive, and indicative of poor design, that in order to be an effective Bladelock, one should pick a particular patron.

 

[Mephista]

I DM a campaign for my brother, it was originally a solo campaign, and he plays a blade pact warlock, and he works just fine. He's pretty solid in melee, uses med armor and shield, and for STR got his hand on(in) some Gauntlets of Ogre Power.

You know, I can't help but read this as "blade pact works fine if you plug the holes with extra armor proficencies and magic items."

You should be able to make a stereotypical tiefling fiend-blade'lock and have it be a relatively solid option without any magic items, feats, or multiclassing. If you're relying on any of those three things to make blade'lock work well, then there's something problematic going on here. Glyssan warlocks should be able to use a Flail as easily as a Dis-bound warlock uses a mace, or choose to use some kind of sword or polearm.

That should be the baseline of this class.

 

[Mephista]

It will be interesting to see how the final form of the Hexblade Patron from UA will change this conversation, if any. But it also seems overly restrictive, and indicative of poor design, that in order to be an effective Bladelock, one should pick a particular patron.

Playtest stuff is there to test out how things work. If it works out, it'd be simple to make a fiend hexblade, a fey hexblade, etc. Or for them to take what's popular from the hexblade and make a new Pact of the Hexblade, or something.

 

[Aldarc]

Playtest stuff is there to test out how things work. If it works out, it'd be simple to make a fiend hexblade, a fey hexblade, etc. Or for them to take what's popular from the hexblade and make a new Pact of the Hexblade, or something.

I suppose it would not be too difficult to change the origin of the hexblade, such that it's not from the Raven Queen/Shadowfell as currently written, but instead from a fey queen, a GOO, or Arioch, the Archduke of Hell.

 

[Warpiglet]

You know, I can't help but read this as "blade pact works fine if you plug the holes with extra armor proficencies and magic items."

You should be able to make a stereotypical tiefling fiend-blade'lock and have it be a relatively solid option without any magic items, feats, or multiclassing. If you're relying on any of those three things to make blade'lock work well, then there's something problematic going on here. Glyssan warlocks should be able to use a Flail as easily as a Dis-bound warlock uses a mace, or choose to use some kind of sword or polearm.

That should be the baseline of this class.

I think it is still a good option as long as you do not pretend to be a fighter. Play them like a warlock but be able to NOT be at disadvantage is something is up on you. Extra AC only helps get in the mix more.

With that said, how does anyone every survive as a warlock? I do not think the extra attacks do anything to get in the way save an invocation. And if you are a pact of the tome, I do not think the rituals are huge boosts. I might want to try one but have not.

I would welcome a bit more for them and agree choices should be less restrictive. I just do not think this is a trap option that is unplayable. With armor, I actually do not see a problem at all in play.

The weapon swings do lead to less versatility...but that is always a trade off. One more invocation and I can do pretty much anything I want.

I am excited about Hexblades with armor...

So my main point is that surely they can add something but the single class is bladelock can survive just fine. I see no issue at all with variant human or dwarf. I too however would like to be able to up the AC early on with other races. I would be tempted to go with armor of shadows for a few levels before taking moderately armored as well as the fiendish vigor (then dumping both at early levels).