So I just started a new campaign with friends and wanted to optimize my character concept. I want a gish build based off of of a High Elven Champion of Corellon Larethian.
I remember the wizard had a paragon path in 4th edition based off of this and I wanted to capture the same idea in 5th.
So I already know it will incorporate the new Bladesinger subclass as a main part of the build, and I am thinking that multiclass fighter would match the concept best, but multiclass rogue also has its advantage.
My character is already level 2 Bladesinger with the following stats (rolled plus High Elf Racial bonuses):
Str: 11
Dex: 18
Con: 13
Int: 18
Wis: 12
Cha: 7
Also; as a side note, the rest of the party is comprised of a Fighter going Purple Dragon Knight, a Mastermind Rogue, and a Lore Bard. None of the other players are super min-max’ers and the DM is great at making the power of the encounters equal to our level of power.
So I don't want to focus on the absurdly powerful wizard spells that can trivialize an entire encounter and leave my teammates feeling like they are contributing nothing to the encounter (Wish and Simulacrum will never be used, changing into a ancient brass dragon , etc)
I have a few ideas that I will list out below (Both Fighter and Rogue MC options, and from most bladesinger to less bladesinger), Please let me know which you think would be the best all around Gish:
Fighter (EK) Multiclass options:
14BS/6EK focusing on Multiple attacks (Extra attack, dualweilding, and haste):
ASI(5 total): +2 Dex, +2 Int, Warcaster, Dual Wield, Last One Open
Fighting Style: Two Weapon Fighting Style
Pros:
7th level spells known and 16th level effective caster
4 x (1d8 + 10 (rapiers)) possible at-will attack damage (2 attacks with Extra Attack, Bonus attack from twf, and Haste Attack, needs two weapon fighting style and the dual wield feat to make the most of it)
BS lvl 10 damage soak ability
Action Surge and Second Wind
Cons:
Only 6 levels of Fighter HP so still kinda bad in the HP department, Gives up the other EK goodies like War Magic and Eldritch Strike for the +Int to melee attacks.
Conclusion: Most caster of the bunch, least survivable out of all of the Fighter options, but has the basis of a gish
13BS/7EK focusing on War Magic and BB/GFB as main at-will attack method:
ASI(5 total): +2 Dex, +2 Int, Warcaster, Last Two Open
Fighting Style: Duelist Fighting Style
Pros:
7th level spells known and 15th level effective caster
3 x (1d8 +7 (rapiers)) + 3d8 to 6d8 (if the BB/GFB secondary riders happen) at-will attack damage (War Magic’ed GFB or BB, Bonus attack, and Haste Attack, no specific feats needed to make the most of this)
War Magic
BS lvl 10 damage soak ability
Action Surge and Second Wind
Cons: Only 7 levels of Fighter HP so still kinda bad in the HP department, Gives up +int to each melee attack for War Magic but gains Duelist Fighting Style to offset the loss.
Conclusion: Just one more fighter level doesn't give much more survivability, but it does give you the tasty War Magic ability and makes you feel like you are weaving magic and melee while keeping on par with straight attacks.
10BS/10EK focusing on War Magic and BB/GFB as main at-will attack method:
ASI(5 total): +2 Dex, +2 Int, Warcaster, Last Two Open
Fighting Style: Duelist Fighting Style
Pros:
3 x (1d8 +7 (rapiers)) + 3d8 to 6d8 (if the BB/GFB secondary riders happen) at-will attack damage (War Magic’ed GFB or BB, Bonus attack, and Haste Attack, no specific feats needed to make the most of this)
10 levels of fighter hit dice for more survivability
Eldritch Strike for spell success!
Indomitable (more survivability)
War Magic
BS lvl 10 damage soak ability
Action Surge and Second Wind
Cons: 5th level spells known and 13th level effective caster so starting to lose some of the casting goodness.
Conclusion: You now get at least half of your levels at a d10 HD, The Sexy Eldritch Strike for conferring disadvantage on a spell save if you hit a baddie, still ok on the spells known but starting to drop.
2BS/18EK focusing on Multiple attacks (Extra attack, dualweilding, and haste):
ASI(6 total): +2 Dex, +2 Int, Warcaster, Dual Wielding, Last Two Open
Fighting Style: Two Weapon Fighting
Pros:
5 x (1d8 + 5 (rapiers)) possible at-will attack damage (3 attacks with Extra Attack, Bonus attack from twf, and Haste Attack, needs two weapon fighting style and the dual wield feat to make the most of it)
18 levels of fighter hit dice for the most survivability
Improved War Magic for Fireball + Basic attack? lol
Arcane Charge for extra movement
Eldritch Strike for spell success!
Indomitable (more survivability) x 3
War Magic (for when a GFB or BB would be better then 5 attacks)
Action Surge x 2 and Second Wind
Cons: 3rd level spells known and 8th level effective caster so the least caster of the bunch
Conclusion: The 18 levels of fighter make you have a great HP pool, however you loose the BS ability to spend a spell slot to reduce damage from an attack. Not sure if this is a good tradeoff. You also are the worst in casting, you only know 3rd level spells, and most of them have to be from the Abjuration/Evocation spell lists. However, you have 5 attacks at 1d8 + 5 per attack.
Rogue (AT) Multiclass Options:
11BS/9AT focusing on Multiple attacks for sneak attack fishing (Extra attack, dualweilding, and haste):
ASI(4total): +2 Dex, +2 Int, Warcaster, Dual Wielding
Pros:
4 x (1d8 + 5 (rapiers)) + 5d6 (sneak attack) possible at-will attack damage (2 attacks with Extra Attack, Bonus attack from twf, and Haste Attack, needs two weapon fighting style and the dual wield feat to make the most of it)
6th level spells known and 14th level effective caster
Extra Attack
Expertise
Cunning Action
Uncanny Dodge
Evasion
BS lvl 10 ability to absorb damage
Magical Ambush 1 level before Eldritch Knight gets his (Eldritch Strike)
Cons: Lower Hit Die then the Fighter Multiclass, rogue is less tied to my concept
Conclusion: More ways to make a single attack hurt with 5d6 Sneak Attack, gets Magical Ambush earlier then EK would, with Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, and the BS lvl 10 ability, it might be the most survivable out of the lot, even without the d10 HD from fighter.
7BS/13AT Focusing on using GFB or BB plus Versatile Trickster to ensure advantage on attack:
ASI(5total): +2 Dex, +2 Int, Warcaster, Last Two Open
Pros:
1 x (1d8 + 5 (rapier)) + 7d6 (sneak attack) + 3d8 to 6d8 (if the BB/GFB secondary riders happen) possible at-will attack damage with advantage
true 4th level wizard spells known and 11th level effective caster
Extra Attack (probably wont be used
Expertise
Cunning Action
Uncanny Dodge
Evasion
Magical Ambush 1 level before Eldritch Knight gets his (Eldritch Strike)
Reliable Talent
Versatile Trickster
Cons: Lose some survivability from the level 10 BS feature but reliably gain advantage and sneak attack without allies
Conclusion: Probably the most punishable single attack of all builds, it loses some survivability but it could be made up by the extra ASI this build gets.
Thoughts/Ideas on which is the best/most optimized gish?
I remember the wizard had a paragon path in 4th edition based off of this and I wanted to capture the same idea in 5th.
So I already know it will incorporate the new Bladesinger subclass as a main part of the build, and I am thinking that multiclass fighter would match the concept best, but multiclass rogue also has its advantage.
My character is already level 2 Bladesinger with the following stats (rolled plus High Elf Racial bonuses):
Str: 11
Dex: 18
Con: 13
Int: 18
Wis: 12
Cha: 7
Also; as a side note, the rest of the party is comprised of a Fighter going Purple Dragon Knight, a Mastermind Rogue, and a Lore Bard. None of the other players are super min-max’ers and the DM is great at making the power of the encounters equal to our level of power.
So I don't want to focus on the absurdly powerful wizard spells that can trivialize an entire encounter and leave my teammates feeling like they are contributing nothing to the encounter (Wish and Simulacrum will never be used, changing into a ancient brass dragon , etc)
I have a few ideas that I will list out below (Both Fighter and Rogue MC options, and from most bladesinger to less bladesinger), Please let me know which you think would be the best all around Gish:
Fighter (EK) Multiclass options:
14BS/6EK focusing on Multiple attacks (Extra attack, dualweilding, and haste):
ASI(5 total): +2 Dex, +2 Int, Warcaster, Dual Wield, Last One Open
Fighting Style: Two Weapon Fighting Style
Pros:
7th level spells known and 16th level effective caster
4 x (1d8 + 10 (rapiers)) possible at-will attack damage (2 attacks with Extra Attack, Bonus attack from twf, and Haste Attack, needs two weapon fighting style and the dual wield feat to make the most of it)
BS lvl 10 damage soak ability
Action Surge and Second Wind
Cons:
Only 6 levels of Fighter HP so still kinda bad in the HP department, Gives up the other EK goodies like War Magic and Eldritch Strike for the +Int to melee attacks.
Conclusion: Most caster of the bunch, least survivable out of all of the Fighter options, but has the basis of a gish
13BS/7EK focusing on War Magic and BB/GFB as main at-will attack method:
ASI(5 total): +2 Dex, +2 Int, Warcaster, Last Two Open
Fighting Style: Duelist Fighting Style
Pros:
7th level spells known and 15th level effective caster
3 x (1d8 +7 (rapiers)) + 3d8 to 6d8 (if the BB/GFB secondary riders happen) at-will attack damage (War Magic’ed GFB or BB, Bonus attack, and Haste Attack, no specific feats needed to make the most of this)
War Magic
BS lvl 10 damage soak ability
Action Surge and Second Wind
Cons: Only 7 levels of Fighter HP so still kinda bad in the HP department, Gives up +int to each melee attack for War Magic but gains Duelist Fighting Style to offset the loss.
Conclusion: Just one more fighter level doesn't give much more survivability, but it does give you the tasty War Magic ability and makes you feel like you are weaving magic and melee while keeping on par with straight attacks.
10BS/10EK focusing on War Magic and BB/GFB as main at-will attack method:
ASI(5 total): +2 Dex, +2 Int, Warcaster, Last Two Open
Fighting Style: Duelist Fighting Style
Pros:
3 x (1d8 +7 (rapiers)) + 3d8 to 6d8 (if the BB/GFB secondary riders happen) at-will attack damage (War Magic’ed GFB or BB, Bonus attack, and Haste Attack, no specific feats needed to make the most of this)
10 levels of fighter hit dice for more survivability
Eldritch Strike for spell success!
Indomitable (more survivability)
War Magic
BS lvl 10 damage soak ability
Action Surge and Second Wind
Cons: 5th level spells known and 13th level effective caster so starting to lose some of the casting goodness.
Conclusion: You now get at least half of your levels at a d10 HD, The Sexy Eldritch Strike for conferring disadvantage on a spell save if you hit a baddie, still ok on the spells known but starting to drop.
2BS/18EK focusing on Multiple attacks (Extra attack, dualweilding, and haste):
ASI(6 total): +2 Dex, +2 Int, Warcaster, Dual Wielding, Last Two Open
Fighting Style: Two Weapon Fighting
Pros:
5 x (1d8 + 5 (rapiers)) possible at-will attack damage (3 attacks with Extra Attack, Bonus attack from twf, and Haste Attack, needs two weapon fighting style and the dual wield feat to make the most of it)
18 levels of fighter hit dice for the most survivability
Improved War Magic for Fireball + Basic attack? lol
Arcane Charge for extra movement
Eldritch Strike for spell success!
Indomitable (more survivability) x 3
War Magic (for when a GFB or BB would be better then 5 attacks)
Action Surge x 2 and Second Wind
Cons: 3rd level spells known and 8th level effective caster so the least caster of the bunch
Conclusion: The 18 levels of fighter make you have a great HP pool, however you loose the BS ability to spend a spell slot to reduce damage from an attack. Not sure if this is a good tradeoff. You also are the worst in casting, you only know 3rd level spells, and most of them have to be from the Abjuration/Evocation spell lists. However, you have 5 attacks at 1d8 + 5 per attack.
Rogue (AT) Multiclass Options:
11BS/9AT focusing on Multiple attacks for sneak attack fishing (Extra attack, dualweilding, and haste):
ASI(4total): +2 Dex, +2 Int, Warcaster, Dual Wielding
Pros:
4 x (1d8 + 5 (rapiers)) + 5d6 (sneak attack) possible at-will attack damage (2 attacks with Extra Attack, Bonus attack from twf, and Haste Attack, needs two weapon fighting style and the dual wield feat to make the most of it)
6th level spells known and 14th level effective caster
Extra Attack
Expertise
Cunning Action
Uncanny Dodge
Evasion
BS lvl 10 ability to absorb damage
Magical Ambush 1 level before Eldritch Knight gets his (Eldritch Strike)
Cons: Lower Hit Die then the Fighter Multiclass, rogue is less tied to my concept
Conclusion: More ways to make a single attack hurt with 5d6 Sneak Attack, gets Magical Ambush earlier then EK would, with Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, and the BS lvl 10 ability, it might be the most survivable out of the lot, even without the d10 HD from fighter.
7BS/13AT Focusing on using GFB or BB plus Versatile Trickster to ensure advantage on attack:
ASI(5total): +2 Dex, +2 Int, Warcaster, Last Two Open
Pros:
1 x (1d8 + 5 (rapier)) + 7d6 (sneak attack) + 3d8 to 6d8 (if the BB/GFB secondary riders happen) possible at-will attack damage with advantage
true 4th level wizard spells known and 11th level effective caster
Extra Attack (probably wont be used
Expertise
Cunning Action
Uncanny Dodge
Evasion
Magical Ambush 1 level before Eldritch Knight gets his (Eldritch Strike)
Reliable Talent
Versatile Trickster
Cons: Lose some survivability from the level 10 BS feature but reliably gain advantage and sneak attack without allies
Conclusion: Probably the most punishable single attack of all builds, it loses some survivability but it could be made up by the extra ASI this build gets.
Thoughts/Ideas on which is the best/most optimized gish?
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