Bladesinger questions

[DarkLord Of DForce]

My son wants to play a Bladesinger in our WOTBS campaign we are doing at home. Currently, we're in the 2nd/3rd module and we're at lev8. I have no problem with this, but it being a new class and being unfamiliar with how it works, I have a few questions.

When Bladesong is up, my son says he can run into a pack of enemies, ending his turn. Then all the adjacent foes can attack him, and he says that Steely Retort allows him to do an MBA as an OA against each attacker. Along with this, if he hits with the MBA/OA, he can then use one of his special At-Wills, Unseen Hand to slide the attacker away, thus negating the attack (assuming they don't have enough reach to still hit).

Is this correct?

Thanks!

 

[Obryn]

A little from Column A, a little from Column B.

When Bladesong is up, my son says he can run into a pack of enemies, ending his turn.

Better to attack them after getting there, but with you so far. (And at Paragon, he'll be able to attack all of them on an action point.) And please note he doesn't get OAs agains them if they make OAs against him; remember you can't make OAs on your own turn.

Then all the adjacent foes can attack him, and he says that Steely Retort allows him to do an MBA as an OA against each attacker.

They need to hit him but yes, he can do this while Bladesong is up. That's their Level 7 feature.

Along with this, if he hits with the MBA/OA, he can then use one of his special At-Wills, Unseen Hand to slide the attacker away, thus negating the attack (assuming they don't have enough reach to still hit).

No; you can only do your Bladespells when you hit with an MBA on your own turn.

Hope that helps!

-O

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

Okay, thanks for the quick reply.

Hmm, I sure do wish WOTC would make some of their descriptions absolutely clear.

For example, an OA is often regarded as another "turn" (you're taking an action). Avengers routinely apply Painful Oath on OAs, because its another "turn", not another "round". (well, its the first time and it is their OOE too).

This is what my son was trying to apply to the Bladesinger special At-wills, that since it was his "turn" do to the OA, they would apply. It is confusing.

I wish WOTC would say "your turn in the initiative order" to clear up some of these descriptions that are rather unclear.

Thanks again.

 

[Obryn]

Yeah, the thing is - an OA is not a separate turn. It's something that takes place on an enemy's turn. Don't regard them as turns in and of themselves, because that's not the rules and it will just lead to confusion.

You have a turn, everyone else has a turn each, then it's your turn again. (And even groups of monsters operating on the same initiative point have their own individual turns.) OAs don't change this; you just can't take them on your own turn. You're basically putting something into the rules that's not there, which is the cause of the question.

-O

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

I understand. I'm not disagreeing with anything you say, I believe it to be right too.

As I stated, I just wish WOTC would define these things a little clearer though. Take the Compendium entry for example (and "Once per Turn" and "Once per Round" are 2 different entries with 2 different definitions):

once per turnSome effects can occur only once per turn. When a creature uses such an effect, the creature can use the effect on each turn, not only during its turn.

I'm going to assume that this is where the Avengers read that Painful Oath applies on OAs and such as well.

Thanks.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The bits of the Baldesinger I've seen - which, I admit, do not include Steely Retort - were written in meticulous rule-speak. They may be so precise they're confusing.

 

[Mengu]

"During your turn" is specific game verbage, that means, during your turn, not during someone else's turn. You only get one turn per round (normally). The monk's flurry of blows for instance also has the same verbage.

It is different than "you can do X once per turn" which implies once per any creature's turn.

The terminology for either situation is well defined.

Bladesingers (and to an extent, monks) get hosed on readied actions because they can't use any of their fancy at-will powers with a readied action, since they must use them "during their turn", and readied actions are resolved as immediate actions during someone else's turn.

Coincidentally ready action tactics work nicely against steely retort. One creature moves in position, readies an attack, when his buddy flanks, he attacks, during his buddy's turn. Since the bladesinger can only make one opportunity attack per turn, he doesn't get to attack them both, he only gets to attack one of them with steely retort.

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

Hmm...okay, I fully understand the general rule that you only get -1- immediate interrupt or reaction, aside from Opportunity attacks - which are special, per round. With OA's, you can only have -1- per another combatants turn.

SO with that in mind, as an example, the Bladesinger can't use his special At-Wills of each OA, but he gets an OA against each -different- attacker,
because its a case of specific vs general, and Steely retort specifically says,

"STEELY RETORT
When an adjacent enemy hits you while your bladesong is active, you can make a melee basic attack against that enemy as an opportunity action."

Re-reading that, it doesn't say "whenever" does it...unlike the Avenger's Halo of Warding which does say "any other enemy", or the Cleric's Divine Castigation which says "whenever". So I guess it doesn't apply then?

Whats everyone think? Thanks.

 

[Mirtek]

For example, an OA is often regarded as another "turn" (you're taking an action).

It is another turn, however this turn is not your turn. If the bladesinger power would state " turn" instead of "your turn" it would work. You are not getting a turn, you are only getting to take an action on a foreign turn

Avengers routinely apply Painful Oath on OAs, because its another "turn",

Because avengers only need to await another turn, regardless whose turn it is. Bladesingers don't just need another turn, they need their own next turn.

This is what my son was trying to apply to the Bladesinger special At-wills, that since it was his "turn" do to the OA, they would apply. It is confusing.

It's not "his turn" during an OA. Matter if fact: Opportunity actions are specifically forbidden at your own turn.

I wish WOTC would say "your turn in the initiative order" to clear up some of these descriptions that are rather unclear.

There is no other "your turn" except for the turn in the initiative order.

but he gets an OA against each -different- attacker,
because its a case of specific vs general, and Steely retort specifically says,

"STEELY RETORT
When an adjacent enemy hits you while your bladesong is active, you can make a melee basic attack against that enemy as an opportunity action."

Unless there is additional text I say no, he would not. Because this text only gives him additional opportunity to use his opportunity action, but doesn't say anything about increasing his number of opportunity actions, thus it's still only one per round.

 

[Drakhar]

Umm...OA's are per turn not per round. So yes Steely Retort would allow you to make a MBA against each adjacent enemy that hits him while he has Bladesong is up.