D&D 5E Bladesinger tank!? Madness, or crazy like a fox?

[Equitable Remedy]

(My apologies if this is too soon! I picked up the SCAG from my FLGS, but I know that everyone doesn't have access to it yet.)

So, here's the question: can a bladesinger serve as the party tank?

I'm coming at this as someone who loves spellcasting ( and playing wizards in particular) but who also has to be the party tank. In my mind, I see things like low HP, no shield (or shield master feat), and the like as barriers to entry. On the other hand, I see full wizard levels (dropping control spells, buffs, etc), the new cantrips, etc, and I think... maybe? I love playing D&D and coming at things sideways (despite, or maybe because of, the fact that the system does not generally reward coming at things sideways), so I'm intrigued by the possibility.

I lack the depth of experience with 5E to have a good sense of whether a bladesinger tank could be viable in a group with no other tank (though we have a life cleric), especially as we get into the mid levels and start seeing real dragons, powerful spellcaster enemies, and the like. We're level 3 now, and I think that my group would let me switch once, but probably not twice (which is entirely fair!)

What say you? Can it be done?

(Also, let's avoid turning this into a discussion of bladesingers being OP or UP. Also, I'll mention that EK are not nearly wizardly enough for me.)

 

[Tony Vargas]

I'm not 100% convinced (maybe 88%) that there even is such a thing as a 'tank' in 5e - there's certainly nothing much like the more formal 'defender' - but, there's a variety of ways of coming at a sort of spoiler function where you limit the choices and effectiveness of the enemy. A traditional 'tank' acts as a physical barrier and an immediate, unsubtle threat that engages the attention of enemies and reduces their hit points. It's tough enough that attacking it may not be the best use of an action (though, thanks to bounded accuracy, it's likely to have some effect), but depending on how the DM makes decisions for enemies, the immediate presence/threat may be enough to provoke that sub-optimal response.

A wizard has more and more varied ways of messing with enemies. A Bladesinger could act a bit like a tank by substituting direct control via spells, and the threat of magical attack for the more immediate in-your-face DPR of a traditional tank. The trick is being tough enough to make attracting that attention a viable tactic, self-buffing might get you there.

I think the bottom line is play the concept you want, and see how it works out. If you have a good enough DM to handle running conventional classes in conventional roles while keeping things flowing and fun for everyone, he can probably handle your character idea, as well.

 

[hejtmane]

Not sure on the Blade Singer I read part of the screen captures out but I need to look at it further

I have a mutli class 2 levels fighter rest wizard build planned (I am DM right now so can not play him) means strength of 15 though but I had him in mind as a battle mage eventually going full plate/shield no weapon + defense from fighting style +1ac and leaving a free hand for spell casting and school of evocation for spell sculpting for the aoe spells etc.

The school options that go with the wizard/fighter than can be leveraged is a lot depending on your theme of your tank.

Abjuration wards, etc

Conjuration at 6th level the swap teleport

Necromancy and Transmute can give you nice option as well that are quite neat

This is another option and your choice of flavors but 2 levels fighter also and second wind and action surge (hey a free extra spell cast once per long/short rest is not all bad)

Then plate + shield + fighting style equals 21ac

 

[HardcoreDandDGirl]

I hope it is doable... one of my absolute favorite characters from 2e was my blade mistress who was a *house ruled* half elf bladesinger... she was a one woman army by the end...

 

[Xaelvaen]

Bladesinger is my all-time favorite kit, ever since first reading about it in the Complete Elf's Handbook for 2E. That being said, I think they have done their best job yet of bringing it to a new edition in 5E.

With the proper spell selection, and the reliability upon cantrips for most of your offensive magic while leaving your spell slots to defensive magic, the bladesinger can certainly hold their own. No matter how high an AC, eventually you're going to get hit, so using Shield, Mirror Image, Vampiric Touch, and more to support your longevity is absolutely a must.

That being said, I'm working on a Fighter/Wizard multi class right now. Using the eldritch knight path, you get to attack as a bonus action after casting a cantrip at 7th level. Which, with multi-classing rules, gives you +2 levels of wizard. So at 20, you could do 7 Fighter / 13 Wizard (with the effective slots of a 15th level wizard). You are trading your level 14 wizard ability, but its not -that- big of a trade for a whole extra attack as a bonus action.

The long and short of it; yeah, in as much as there is a tank, a Bladesinger could definitely do well to protect his party.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Bladesinger is my all-time favorite kit, ever since first reading about it in the Complete Elf's Handbook for 2E. That being said, I think they have done their best job yet of bringing it to a new edition in 5E.

I completely agree.

 

[psychophipps]

Since I'm in a great minority apparently, I say Bladesinger FTMFW! Be really hard to get this much goodness in the same package without sacrificing spell levels by multi-classing.

Not sure if they're still doing the douchy Elves-only thing with it as I don't have the book myself, but by taking Tough you mitigate a bunch of the "but my HP sucks!" and at level 10 you can dump spell slots to mitigate damage without losing too much offensive power that will largely come from cantrips anyway. Sure you lose some extra magic"Oomph" in terms of the specialty mage options in the PHB, but if you're an Old Skooler that never had that stuff in the first place, you really won't miss it one little bit.

 

[Uchawi]

It would be one more reason to eventually retire the fighter unless they actually provide a mechanism to update martial characters ability via maneuvers at some point. At least if you start with a fighter it will not take very long (because of limited class choices) to want to try a paladin, bladesinger, etc.

 

[Tia Nadiezja]

You can, for two encounters a short rest, get unparalleled armor class. Once you get the ability to burn off spell slots for damage mitigation, you can take hits well (if very expensively). But you can't cast Counterspell and Shield in the same round, which leaves you vulnerable to Con-save magic, which is both common and devastating, and if you run out of Bladesong you're in a pile of trouble in melee because without that AC boost your low HP will show.

And you're not a very good wizard.

EDIT: Changed "day" to "short rest" for accuracy.

 

[Ainulindalion]

I think there a lot of reasons to multi bladesinger with EK fighter, personally. Sure, you lose spell options, but honestly, I don't think you're playing a bladesinger for 9th level spells (though foresight looks really hot on any melee character).

You'll want to start with fighter, obviously, for gear, and CON SV proficiency. Depending on whether or not you plan to wear armor once you're a bladesinger, you take either defense or duelist fighting styles. Since you want a tank, use defense.

If you're looking to tank, I'd go with 8 levels of EK fighter and 12 of wizard. You'll end up with 7th level spell slots, but that's not super important.

The reasoning: The ability to cast a cantrip every round lets you cast blade ward every round. You're now at half damage from weapon attacks that hit you. That hardly even counts being able to maintain a CONCEN spell like blur or haste. And you can still hit things once.

You've got 6 ASIs as well. Max DEX and INT, so static AC of 18. Not great, but not crap. Still have 2 ASIs. Spend one of those on War Caster so you can keep your deflection spells up. ADV + CON SV Prof is decent, and doesn't count your bonus during bladesong. Your other ASI can go to CON+2, Tough, Magic Initiate (Cleric, for resistance, guidance, and shield of faith) or (Wizard, if 8 cantrips (High elf) isn't enough for you, plus a free shield), Defensive Duelist (to conserve spell slots, though it isn't as good as shield), or Resilient (Wisdom) to help with those pesky disabling mind-f---ing spells.

You should be a decent secondary tank that way. But you're never going to be able to tank a massive hit from a spell the way a fighter or paladin can. You're never going to hit the Paladin's 21 base AC (and by level 20, that should be 23 a good percentage of the time). But you can hit 23 AC while in the bladesong, with an optional 28 while taking half damage from weapon hits.