D&D 5E (2014) Bladesinger vs. Valor Bard vs. Bladelock
- Thread starter Lanliss
- Start date
UngeheuerLich
Legend
And you decide to save it because you may need it more later on. If in your games it is like that ok. But in our games being versatile has its merits.
cbwjm
Legend
I've only played a bladesinger and then only up to level 5 so I don't have any higher level experience.
I've noticed that while I am hard to hit in melee, my low hit points means that saving throws I fail (or succeed on for half damage) are still quite punishing. Greenflame blade really helps my damage in melee, even if there wasn't a secondary target. Having an additional defensive spell cast before combat really helps (I went with blur). The +Intelligence to concentration checks is nice, unless like me you have a tendency to low roll your concentration checks.
Bladesong is a great ability, however, you can only maintain it twice/short rest for 1 minute, and if you are incapacitated you lose it along with its defensive benefits (I think once I got hit with a hold person, losing it).
There have been times where it was a better decision for me to cast haste on the party monk and then hang back and blast with fire bolt or drop a fireball instead of engaging in melee.
The benefits of the bladesinger I found was the versatility of being able to engage in melee or being able to hang back and blast with spells, it was very easy to swap between the two stances depending on the situation. Often I would activate bladesong, move 40 ft (due to the bonus from bladesong), blast an enemy with firebolt, then engage them in melee the next round. Having some close combat spells like burning hands or thunderwave is also handy.
I've noticed that while I am hard to hit in melee, my low hit points means that saving throws I fail (or succeed on for half damage) are still quite punishing. Greenflame blade really helps my damage in melee, even if there wasn't a secondary target. Having an additional defensive spell cast before combat really helps (I went with blur). The +Intelligence to concentration checks is nice, unless like me you have a tendency to low roll your concentration checks.
Bladesong is a great ability, however, you can only maintain it twice/short rest for 1 minute, and if you are incapacitated you lose it along with its defensive benefits (I think once I got hit with a hold person, losing it).
There have been times where it was a better decision for me to cast haste on the party monk and then hang back and blast with fire bolt or drop a fireball instead of engaging in melee.
The benefits of the bladesinger I found was the versatility of being able to engage in melee or being able to hang back and blast with spells, it was very easy to swap between the two stances depending on the situation. Often I would activate bladesong, move 40 ft (due to the bonus from bladesong), blast an enemy with firebolt, then engage them in melee the next round. Having some close combat spells like burning hands or thunderwave is also handy.
From a pure powergaming perspective:
1. Bladesinger (Wizard spell list > all)
2. Bladelock (until level 13ish+ when Bard spell list takes over)
3. Valor Bard
The reason for Bladelock > Valor is simply better survivability. False Life invocation = always on +8 temp HP, a HUGE HP boost at lower levels. Armor of Agathys is one of the best survivability spells in the game, especially when combined with the level 10 Fiend ability to resist one damage type (most monsters don't have magical attacks). It's literally so strong it forces DMs not to target you with melee attacks.
Lastly, Thirsty Blade + PAM + GWM = some pretty ridiculous damage potential, at least compared to the Valor Bard.
That being said, once you start hitting the level 7+ spells, Valor Bard pulls ahead simply based on the Bard spell list and having more spells to use.
Also, at lower levels, characters are significantly less likely to have a magical weapon. Campaign dependent, but having an at-will magical weapon is literally doubling DPR.
1. Bladesinger (Wizard spell list > all)
2. Bladelock (until level 13ish+ when Bard spell list takes over)
3. Valor Bard
The reason for Bladelock > Valor is simply better survivability. False Life invocation = always on +8 temp HP, a HUGE HP boost at lower levels. Armor of Agathys is one of the best survivability spells in the game, especially when combined with the level 10 Fiend ability to resist one damage type (most monsters don't have magical attacks). It's literally so strong it forces DMs not to target you with melee attacks.
Lastly, Thirsty Blade + PAM + GWM = some pretty ridiculous damage potential, at least compared to the Valor Bard.
That being said, once you start hitting the level 7+ spells, Valor Bard pulls ahead simply based on the Bard spell list and having more spells to use.
Also, at lower levels, characters are significantly less likely to have a magical weapon. Campaign dependent, but having an at-will magical weapon is literally doubling DPR.
A few notes
1) Rituals, that are accessible to bladesinger, are just awesome. While bards are great utility too, at least one wizard in a party is a must
2) There is a wizard spell 'shadowblade' that provides a nice damage that scales with level and is of psychic type. also an advantage if you are in darkness (which were always in my last two compains)
3) Shadow blade is good not only as gish but also as primary caster with great defense: light/wizard armor(~12) + Dx(~4) + Int(~4) + Shield(5) = 25 AC
4) downside - wizard hp suck
1) Rituals, that are accessible to bladesinger, are just awesome. While bards are great utility too, at least one wizard in a party is a must
2) There is a wizard spell 'shadowblade' that provides a nice damage that scales with level and is of psychic type. also an advantage if you are in darkness (which were always in my last two compains)
3) Shadow blade is good not only as gish but also as primary caster with great defense: light/wizard armor(~12) + Dx(~4) + Int(~4) + Shield(5) = 25 AC
4) downside - wizard hp suck
Blue
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Shadowblade is a great spell, though it wasn't out during the part of 2017 that the rest of this thread was written in.
However it's a concentration spell, so there's an opportunity cost in that you can't have up any of the other fantastic buff or debuff spells.
Ancalagon
Dusty Dragon
This discussion really needs to be re-done with Xanathar consideration. I feel that valor bard has been completely displaced by the college of sword, and of course hexblade changes things.
What does bother me about these two classes is how much they benefit from level dipping. A few levels of hexblade makes the college of sword absolutely amazing - it's a very versatile class, and hexblade brings you less MAD and better defenses (shield and/or shield spell). And if you don't want to be a bard but want to be a real fighting gish, a few levels in fighter will make your hexblade far more resilient.
Lastly, there is the hexblade-paladin, which is just... wrong.
What does bother me about these two classes is how much they benefit from level dipping. A few levels of hexblade makes the college of sword absolutely amazing - it's a very versatile class, and hexblade brings you less MAD and better defenses (shield and/or shield spell). And if you don't want to be a bard but want to be a real fighting gish, a few levels in fighter will make your hexblade far more resilient.
Lastly, there is the hexblade-paladin, which is just... wrong.
haha, I'm currently playing a Hexblade / Paladin (13/2)... it wasn't planned, it just happened over the course of play, where he eventually abandoned his old Patron (Raven Queen), and took up a new one (Erythnul) after proving his willingness to swap (long story, but kinda a bit like Elric). Later, I decided he'd get more into Erythnul and become a Paladin (yes, I finally noticed the synergies, and also I thought 13 was pretty much too many levels of Warlock especially as I wasn't giving the Wizard enough room to shine). Anyway, anything can be justified, be it pre-planned, or like mine sometimes weird ideas just come up and you have fun rolling with it.
Ancalagon
Dusty Dragon
To me the college of sword bard just seems plain better... but maybe I'm wrong? How does the valor bard dish out huge damage?
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