blindsight and flanking bonuses

[pit fiend]

Would opponents still get a +2 to attack rolls for flanking a character/monster with blindsight? Personally, I take blindsight as an all around, 360 degree, "vision" that would negate flanking bonuses and rogue sneak attacks.

Is there an official ruling on this?

 

[Caliban]

Would opponents still get a +2 to attack rolls for flanking a character/monster with blindsight? Personally, I take blindsight as an all around, 360 degree, "vision" that would negate flanking bonuses and rogue sneak attacks.

Is there an official ruling on this?

Yes, flankers would still get a +2 on attack, as you are still dividing your attention between them.

Invisible attackers would not get a +2 attack bonus, however.

 

[kreynolds]

Would opponents still get a +2 to attack rolls for flanking a character/monster with blindsight? Personally, I take blindsight as an all around, 360 degree, "vision" that would negate flanking bonuses and rogue sneak attacks.

Is there an official ruling on this?

It means that you can "see" without having to "see". It would negate surprise if the enemy is within your area of Blindsight. It would not negate flanking, as that has to do with being surrounded. That's how I read it, anyway.

 

[pit fiend]

My understanding of flanking is that in normal situations if you are flanked you cannot "see" both opponents at the same time and therefore you cannot react to both since one opponent is always at a "blindspot."

With blindsight, one can "see" all around, without any blindspots, therefore react to two separate opponents, even if on opposite sides, just as one without blindsight could react to 2 opponents in front of him/her at the same time without any penalties.

 

[kreynolds]

My understanding of flanking is that in normal situations if you are flanked you cannot "see" both opponents at the same time and therefore you cannot react to both since one opponent is always at a "blindspot."

With blindsight, one can "see" all around, without any blindspots, therefore react to two separate opponents, even if on opposite sides, just as one without blindsight could react to 2 opponents in front of him/her at the same time without any penalties.

Flanking is not all about "not being able to see each and every one of your opponents". Flanking has to do with you not being able to effectively react to or defend yourself from so many simultaneously threatening opponents. Very few creatures are not subject to flanking, such as a gelatinous cube. Gelatinous Cubes cannot be flanked because there is no "weak spot" dependant upon being surrounded or how many people are surrounding it. Technically, you can't declare that you attack the back of the creature while your ally declares that you attack the front of the creature. Why? There is no such thing as "Facing" in the d20 system as of yet. This is also the reason that "Sneak Attack" was changed from "Backstab". Meaning, if you and 7 other people surround a gelatinous cube, none of you have any particular "weak spot" to take advantage of.

Blindsight allows you to locate creatures within range, even if they are silenced and invisible. It does not allow you to fight 8 flanking opponents any better than you can fight one. It does however, allow you to better defend yourself from surprise sneak attacks, or sneak attacks from invisible creatures/characters.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

When you read the uncanny dodge abilities - there is text with the approximate equivalency of:

"the character may react equally well to opponents on either side of his position.

therefore; seeing does not necessarily equal the ability to react to -

The Robe of eyes doesn't grant you uncanny dodge, just 360 vision

 

[kreynolds]

When you read the uncanny dodge abilities - there is text with the approximate equivalency of:

"the character may react equally well to opponents on either side of his position.

therefore; seeing does not necessarily equal the ability to react to -

The Robe of eyes doesn't grant you uncanny dodge, just 360 vision

360 degree vision does not grant you uncanny dodge. Just because you can see all around you, doesn't mean that you can't be caught flat-footed, even though you can't be flanked, such as the beholder.

Note that Blindsight is called Blindsight and not All-Around Vision.

 

[pit fiend]

Magus,

Thanks for the response, you inadvertently helped me out with your response. Under the robe of eyes, and I quote...

"She retains her Dexterity bonus to Dexterity bonus to AC even when flat-footed and can't be flanked"

Therefore no +2 bonus, and no rogue sneak attacks while wearing the robe of eyes. Blindsight = 360 vision, therefore blindsight negates flanking and sneak attacks...

 

[Magus_Jerel]

Blindsight = 360 vision ??

That I am not so sure on.

 

[Li Shenron]

In the S&F it is written that Blindsight 5-foot (I guess you're talking about this Feat) is the same as monsters' Blindsight except from the reduced range.

In the MM, Blindsight says that it lets a creature fight against invisible (for any reason) opponents as well as a sighted creature fights against visible ones. Nothing better.
Why? I don't know, but imagine you were born blind, and have developed a fine sense of hearing and smell. Still I guess your ears and nose positions would let you notice much worse something which is on your back

Another possible argument: in the MM, Ooze description (in the introduction, at the list of general features for each monster type) clearly says both:
1. Oozes have no clear front or back, therefore are immune to critical hits and can't be flanked
2. Oozes are blind but have the Blingsight feat
It might be just a redundancy, but I don't think it is.