Blindsight plus darkness -- unsalvageably broken?

[shilsen]

What's the blindsight feat do?
Seriously.

Allows you to use high-frequency sounds as a form of sonar to "locate objects and creatures within 120 ft". It depends upon hearing to be effective, so it can be negated in various ways.

 

[Pielorinho]

Nerf all you want but that blindsight/darkness tactic isn't very powerful.

It can works fine, but under normal cirumstances it's less efficient than a single improved invisibility spell.

Note that your examples (mages with fly and fireballs, fighters with blindsight, fights happening at distances greater than 30 feat) are exceptions, not the norm.

The spell combo is much better than improved invisibility, as stated above: the duration is 60 times as long, and it grants a power superior to true seeing within 30', again for sixty times longer than true seeing. The disadvantage (that you can't see farther than 30') is significant, but nowhere near as significant as the rest of it.

Even if blindsight is dispelled, no big deal: the caster simply hides the source of the darkness.

As long as the combination duplicates the powers of a fourth level and a fifth level spell for 10-60 times as long as those two spells would last, it's overpowered in my campaign. This is a famous problem with Forgotten Realms, and this spell is just my first encounter with the problem.

Daniel

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Also the blindsight from MotW can almost onlybe taken by druids since its prereq is able to wildshape into a dire bat. It really is a vastly overpowered feat. Sure it can be handled by a silence spell, but in every other situation you got the virtually undefeatable blindisihgt at 120'. It is just sick, and just one of the many things in MotW that just wont make it into any game I run. Woo-hoo power inflation of splat books you gotta love it.

 

[The_lone_gunman]

I dont know if this helps you any but I wouldn't allow a rogue to get sneak attack damage using blindsight. How do you "smell or sonar" your way into a precise, sneak attack shot?

How about a light spell to cancel out the darkness? Wouldn't that work? (whatever the 2nd lvl light spell is or whatever the opposite of darkness is).

Blindfighting feats are fairly easy for fighter monster types to get right...

If you shoot dead center of the darkness you would only get a 50% miss chance.

I would not allow the cleric to cast range touch attack spells using the blindfighting feat, or at least give them major minuses....

Toss some caltrops on the floor in front of the cleric, I would rule that they are too close to the ground to detect.

A nice rock trap that you lead the darknessed person into (ouchie for that 2 ton rock that just fell on the cleric)

Silence spells...

Dispel magic of course

Monks with expeditious retreat and spring attack (in and out of that 30' radius...)


Of course, I find that it is my mission in life to find creative ways to defeat my players creative ways of fighting. I also agree with the poster above who said you will be in for some big time disappointment if you think this is a superpowerful combo......Monsters can learn just like PC's can, have them fight and retreat and come back with some way to neutralize the players min/maxed combo........PC's who cannot adapt die quickly in my campaign .

Remember that PC's are epic characters (usually) in the story, and thus are talked about a lot (this would include their tactics, especially if the use the same one all the time).

TLG

 

[Pielorinho]

Thanks, Lone GUnman, for your analysis!

Unfortunately, as I've already stated, I've no interest whatsoever in people's reasons why this tactic isn't overpowered. I've already decided it's overpowered; I'm only looking for ideas to get the power level down to something reasonable. I'll ignore any more posts that, instead of offering nerf suggestions, try to convince me that it's a reasonable tactic.

Daniel

 

[maddman75]

The simplest nerf, rather than trying to come up with exceptions and such, would be to raise the level of the spell. I'd say to 4th - I personally don't believe that this spell is better than improved invisibility - for one thing its a combo that's the problem, not the spell itself. You might also rule that it only allows you to see as well as the character could if the area was well lit - no seeing invisible creatures, no automatically spotting hidden creatures, etc.

Of course if you want to go to great lengths to keep broken stuff out of your game, do what I do and outlaw anything from the realms

 

[UofMDude]

Okay. The spell Blindsight (from Magic of Faerun) grants blindsight to a cleric for one hour/level, at a cost of a 4th-level slot. This spell grants benefits roughly equivalent to those granted by True Seeing, a fifth-level spell, if the spell's subject closes her eyes. There are two major differences:
1) Blindsight only works within a 30' radius
2) Blindsight works on nonmagically concealed features.

And, of course, blindsight lasts 60 times longer than True Seeing.

Perhaps you're playing with a different PHB than I am. My PHB indicates that True Seeing also finds magically hidden secret doors and sees the true forms of polymorphed objects/creatures. It can also see into the Ethereal plane. Additionally, for clerics (which you seem to be worried about) it provides instantaneous alignment of creatures seen. Sounds pretty useful.

Sure, blindsight is useful but let's not get carried away. And you must really hate the blindsight feat in MotW then, eh?

UofMDude

 

[UofMDude]

Thanks, Lone GUnman, for your analysis!

Unfortunately, as I've already stated, I've no interest whatsoever in people's reasons why this tactic isn't overpowered. I've already decided it's overpowered; I'm only looking for ideas to get the power level down to something reasonable. I'll ignore any more posts that, instead of offering nerf suggestions, try to convince me that it's a reasonable tactic.

Daniel

Ok then, how about playing a game that doesn't have spells? Maybe something other than DnD? Then you won't have power combos.

UofMDude

 

[Pielorinho]

Ok then, how about playing a game that doesn't have spells? Maybe something other than DnD? Then you won't have power combos.

la la la

 

[Wippit Guud]

Just have your opponents all do the same thing.

Stay outside the globe.

That removes the cleric out of the combat completely.