Blood and Fists news

[Greg K]

B&F feedback

Charles,

Here is my feedback on B&F. I grabbed several books from storage and used them as reference.

Skills
Pressure Points: Hapkido and some other styles use pressure points to help escape from grapples or to aid in takedowns. Perhaps pressure points can provide a synergy bonus to aid in both escaping from grapples and when tripping opponents.

Styles:
First, several styles do not seem to have 6 points worth of benefits. This is not necessarily a problem since not all styles have as diverse of a syllabus. I limited my comments to styles for which I had books on hand or for which I could recall a fact regarding the style from a book or magaiine which is still in storage

Aikido:
Feats: Add Improved Disarm, Weapons Focus (Katana, Staff)

Dragon
According to Doc Fai Wong's book Shaolin Five Animal Kung Fu, the Dragon
includes "takedowns (oceans), and clouds (throws)" and the dragon's ability to disappear is reflected in the style's deceptive strikes (Deceptive Strike).
Feats: Add Deceptive Strike, Chokehold, Improved Trip, Hip Throw

Eagle Claw
Northern Eagle Claw focuses on vital strikes, locks and takedowns (Complete Guide to Kung Fu Fighting Styles). It also teaches Weapon focus (staff or short staff) (see book: Fatal Flute forms)

Style Benefit: Eagle stylists use every imaginable joint lock and takedown (Complete Guide to Kung Fu).
Style Benefit: add Provokes no opportunity when making Grapple attacks.
Feats: add Improved Trip, Lock Block, Disarm Block, Leg Sweep

Hapkido:
Hapkido also teaches joint locks and breaks, groundfighting, disarms, pressure points and some weaponry. It also has the principle of “Flow Like Water” which might be simulated with Agile Riposte (Sources: Hapkido: Korean Art of Self Defense by (Scott Shaw) Hapkido: The integrated Fighting Art (by Spears);Hapkido: Korean Karate by Bong Soo Han); Martial Arts by Peter Lewis).

Prerequisites: Add “or Improved Grapple”
Style Benefit: Pressure Point Skill

Mastery: Accurate Grapple 1,

Feats: Agile Riposte, Disarm Block, Lock Block, Ground fighting, Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple, Nerve Strike, Ridgehand, Weapon Focus (Gum (Katana), Yawara, staff, short staff)

Remove: Acrobatics Mastery 2

Hapkido also makes extensive use of the “live hand” in which the fingers are spread wide apart. The live hand gives an advantage when escaping grabs and is easy to move into from the knife hand.

Jujitsu
There are lots of different versions of jujitsu. My sources say that Jujitsu emphasizes joint locks and breaks, throws, sweeps, vital strikes (eyes, throat, etc.), and disarms. Here are some suggested changes for someone wanting to duplicate a more traditional approach:

Prerequisite Add “or Improved Trip”
Mastery: Add: Accurate Throw 1, Hard Throw 1, Hard Throw 2
Remove: Accurate Kick 2, Hard Kick 2, Hard Kick 3

Feats: Add Archaic Weapons- Japanese, Disarm Block, Eye Gouge, Ground Fighting, Hip Throw, Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Momentum Throw, Nerve Strike

Remove: Axe Kick, Circle Kick, Jump Kick,

Jeet Kune Do
Bruce Lee drew from many different styles for Jeet Kun Do. Here are two additional maneuvers.
Add the following feats: Hip Throw, Lock Block

Leopard
The Leopard has an attack "Black Leopard climbs the trees" which is "a series of four rapid leopard fist punches delivered to the fist and torso" (Shaolin Five Animals Kunf Fu by Doc Fai Wong). It sounds like Flurry of Blows from DND, but d20 Modern has no equivalent.

Monkey
Add: Ground Fighting, Power Attack, Weapon Focus: Staff (Complete Guide to Kung Fu Fighting Styles)

Ninjutsu
Some forms of Ninjutsu have tumbling dodges and sweeps.
Add the following feats: Dodge Roll, Leg Sweep
Ninjutstu also has combat where the attacker strikes attacking the attacker’s punching arm rather than blocking it.

Thai Kickboxing
Feat: add Toughness

Tiger
The Tiger teaches Joint Locks and makes some use of Pressure Points (Shaolin Five Animal Kung Fu). It also has a back kick called "Tiger stretches his back leg". (Shaolin Five Animals Kung Fu)

Feats: add Back Kick, Toughness

White Crane
White Crane, according to some sources, relies more heavily upon evading an attack and counterstriking rather than blocking. The outstretched arms act not only as balance, buy as deceptive striking attack since the opponent does not know which hand will strike "one hand lies and the other tells the truth" (Complete Guide to Kung Fu Fighting styles).
Feats: add Deceptive Strike, Replace Dodge Roll with Agile Riposte


Signature Maneuvers
I am not sure how I feel about many of the signature moves. Many of the moves listed are not limited to the styles listed.
Achilles Lock: Several styles (e.g., Hapkido, Jujitsu and Wrestling) use leg lock submissions. Also, the Shin kick to the thigh (practitioners develop their shins by breaking baseball bats with their shins) and flying knee and elbow strikes are usually considered to be the bread butter attacks of Thai boxing

Antari: The inside crescent kick is used by several Korean styles.
Ashi-Sukuto: This kick is used by several styles.
Cradle Pin: Several styles including Hapkido and Jujitsu use joint locks that take opponents to the ground
Double Eagle Claw: Used in several styles under various names.
Nukite Zuki: The spear hand is used in various styles including Tae Kwon Do
Pak Antari: The outside crescent kick is used by several styles.
Shuto Uchi: The knife hand is used by many Korean and Chinese styles and is the main hand technique of Hapkido.
Teisho: The palm heel strike is used in many styles

Shadow and Shadow Warrior are both neat, but they don’t feel right as signature moves when the other signature moves are all combat related.


I think I have a few more notes elsewhere. If I can find them, I will post more comments when I get back home.

Greg

 

[Vigilance]

Charles,

Here is my feedback on B&F. I grabbed several books from storage and used them as reference.

Skills
Pressure Points: Hapkido and some other styles use pressure points to help escape from grapples or to aid in takedowns. Perhaps pressure points can provide a synergy bonus to aid in both escaping from grapples and when tripping opponents.

I like that idea.

Styles:
First, several styles do not seem to have 6 points worth of benefits. This is not necessarily a problem since not all styles have as diverse of a syllabus. I limited my comments to styles for which I had books on hand or for which I could recall a fact regarding the style from a book or magaiine which is still in storage

This is a persistant problem, and is compounded by the fact that at one point weapon styles received less than 6 points, and some facets of styles were more expensive. However, all of these are considered (by me) typos at this point. Anyone who notices a style with less than six points, point it out, and I will get it fixed as part of this current update.

Eagle Claw
Northern Eagle Claw focuses on vital strikes, locks and takedowns (Complete Guide to Kung Fu Fighting Styles). It also teaches Weapon focus (staff or short staff) (see book: Fatal Flute forms)

I have done something with many of the animal styles I think you will all find very interesting, and it addresses this very point, and in fact, this very style.

Hapkido:
Hapkido also teaches joint locks and breaks, groundfighting, disarms, pressure points and some weaponry. It also has the principle of “Flow Like Water” which might be simulated with Agile Riposte (Sources: Hapkido: Korean Art of Self Defense by (Scott Shaw) Hapkido: The integrated Fighting Art (by Spears);Hapkido: Korean Karate by Bong Soo Han); Martial Arts by Peter Lewis).

Prerequisites: Add “or Improved Grapple”
Style Benefit: Pressure Point Skill

One of the issues (a minor one imo) in the way pressure points works is that almost *every* style has individual schools and sensei who use pressure points in their syllabi. This endless variation of styles is one of the primary reasons I included information on how to build styles as a part of the game itself, so that you could encounter 1,000 different varieties of Hapkido.

Jujitsu
There are lots of different versions of jujitsu. My sources say that Jujitsu emphasizes joint locks and breaks, throws, sweeps, vital strikes (eyes, throat, etc.), and disarms. Here are some suggested changes for someone wanting to duplicate a more traditional approach:

Right. Again this is why I give you the tools to build your own styles, while giving what I felt was a representative style as an example.

Jeet Kune Do
Bruce Lee drew from many different styles for Jeet Kun Do. Here are two additional maneuvers.
Add the following feats: Hip Throw, Lock Block

Keep in mind that Jeet Kune Do is adaptive, and may be used to take any maneuvers. So while those maneuvers are not eligible for BONUS feats, you can take them.

Leopard
The Leopard has an attack "Black Leopard climbs the trees" which is "a series of four rapid leopard fist punches delivered to the fist and torso" (Shaolin Five Animals Kunf Fu by Doc Fai Wong). It sounds like Flurry of Blows from DND, but d20 Modern has no equivalent.

Hm, might make an interesting feat idea.

Tiger
The Tiger teaches Joint Locks and makes some use of Pressure Points (Shaolin Five Animal Kung Fu). It also has a back kick called "Tiger stretches his back leg". (Shaolin Five Animals Kung Fu)

My comment on Eagle applies here, and I think you will be happy with what I've come up with (he said cryptically).

Signature Maneuvers
I am not sure how I feel about many of the signature moves. Many of the moves listed are not limited to the styles listed.

Every maneuver you mention is correctly identified as belonging to several styles, and its a big reason why signature maneuvers are, along with Ki, considered "highly optional". It was an attempt on my part to give each style something no other stylist could get, and represent what I considered to be the "ultimate strengths" of each style. But, as I clearly state, signature maneuvers are not considered by me to represent reality.

Shadow and Shadow Warrior are both neat, but they don’t feel right as signature moves when the other signature moves are all combat related.

Well, I use signature maneuvers to represent what the style is really better at than anyone else. For the ninjutsu practitioner this is stealth and mystery.

Thanks for all the feedback Greg!

If others would prefer signature maneuvers become regular maneuvers, this is doable. I'm listening.

Chuck

 

[JPL]

I bet it's a +2 for an attack where you scream a silly name for your move.

"MONKEY DRINKS MASTER'S WINE!"

"ANGRY CROW TAKES FLIGHT!"

 

[Greg K]

Vigilance wrote:
<Thanks for all the feedback Greg! >

My pleasure it is a great book! I look forward to seeing what new stuff you have added and changed.

<If others would prefer signature maneuvers become regular maneuvers, this is doable. I'm listening.>

My personal preference is to just make them regular maneuvers.

<Anyone who notices a style with less than six points, point it out, and I will get it fixed as part of this current update.>

Here are the styles I found unless I did something wrong (Note: I looked at primarily at the Chinese, Japanese, and Korean styles).

Boar (5), Dragon (5), Eagle (4), Hapkido (5), Karate (5), Leopard (5) Monkey (5), ROSS (5).

That is it for now.
Greg

 

[Greg K]

re: Hwarang do

Charles,
Interesting writeup, I was wondering what you were going to cut to fit the basics into 6 points. I kept coming up with a need for 10 points- I had the same as you plus Meditation (or concentration), Tumble (for breakfalls and rolls), does not provoke AOA for Grabs, and Dex bonus instead of strength ( most of the various hand strikes target vital areas (e.g., eyes, throat, temple, carotid artery, floating ribs, sternum, groin) while locks, throws, and takedowns rely on speed rather than power). Even dropping Meditation since some American instructors ignore the meditation aspect, I kept coming up with 9.

Just out of curiousity, how are you going to handle both the basic weapon training found in the styles forms and the Moo Gi Gong training which provides training in 108 weapons? Is Moo Gi Gong going to be Archaic Weapons and various other weapon styles?

Greg

 

[Greg K]

Monkey Steals the peach. New Maneuver?

I was just curious how to simulate "Monkey steals the peach" in B&F. Any plans for a new maneuver?

Greg

 

[Vigilance]

Well, I basically decided that all the skills they list weren't a part of the basic style itself. I consider the style to be basic proficiency.

There are difficult styles, such as Hwa Rang Do, and Shotokan, two styles that off the top of my head take around 10 years for a first dan.

I don't think representing 10 years of work with one feat is the way to go.

Other facets of training, such as weapons, I would consider added feats on their own.

Chuck

Charles,
Interesting writeup, I was wondering what you were going to cut to fit the basics into 6 points. I kept coming up with a need for 10 points- I had the same as you plus Meditation (or concentration), Tumble (for breakfalls and rolls), does not provoke AOA for Grabs, and Dex bonus instead of strength ( most of the various hand strikes target vital areas (e.g., eyes, throat, temple, carotid artery, floating ribs, sternum, groin) while locks, throws, and takedowns rely on speed rather than power). Even dropping Meditation since some American instructors ignore the meditation aspect, I kept coming up with 9.

Just out of curiousity, how are you going to handle both the basic weapon training found in the styles forms and the Moo Gi Gong training which provides training in 108 weapons? Is Moo Gi Gong going to be Archaic Weapons and various other weapon styles?

Greg

 

[Vigilance]

Btw- the only real concession I made with Hwa Rang Do was that I would probably have given the style attacks modified by Dexterity rather than Strength. Given that the martial arts master class grants tumble concentration and balance as skills, I never consider it a loss if a style doesnt have them.

 

[JPL]

I'm proficient in 108 weapons. About fifty of them are clubs, though...


I assume the new Weapon Master is like a kensai, devoted to a single weapon. But the guy who is deadly with anything is a great character idea, too...could be a new class, or you could do something like this...

New Mastery: Weapons Versatility

Weapons Versatility 1: Your nonproficiency penalty for melee weapons and ranged weapons (other than firearms) is reduced by 1.

Weapons Versatility 2: Your nonproficiency penalty for melee weapons and ranged weapons (other than firearms) is reduced by 1.

Weapons Versatility 3: Your nonproficiency penalty for melee weapons and ranged weapons (other than firearms) is reduced by 2.

Or in the alternative...make it "reduced by 2" for 1 and 2, and make the advanced Mastery something more beefy...maybe an increased threat range for all weapons? Or a +1 to hit with all weapons?

 

[Vigilance]

The Weapon master is not as good a martial artist all the way around, but he gets weapon masteries faster than any other class. One reason it took me so long to get a weapon master class I liked (it was in and out of the first book about a dozen times) was I wanted there to be advantages to being a martial arts master of a weapon style and an advantage to being a weapon master.

I like your weapons versatility idea JPL... let me ponder it. I had actually decided I wasn't going to add any more masteries.. but you know what they say about rules and breaking things... or something like that

Chuck