Bloodbloater Ooze CR1?

[carborundum]

Just put my players up against a bloodbloater ooze yesterday (Aquatic swarm - Fiend Folio) and I'm not entirely sure why it's only CR1. It's hard to damage (immune to all normal weapons, single target spells and mind affecting spells) and has 3 HD (okay 2d10 +12). And it does automatic ability damage, spoils concentration and causes nausea!

So - it had 22 hp and none of their weapons worked. Colour Spray and Daze were the only spells the wizard had left, so he could do nothing. In the end it boiled down to the tried and tested tactic of "oil on the floor, torch it, then throw lots of combustibles and more oil on."

So they used their wits and beat it, and I'll give them the credit and xp I feel they earned (the DMG is just a guideline ) I still don't understand how it's officially CR1 - it had more hit points than the whole party put together at that point! Okay, move speed 5 on dry land but they encountered it in the water first. It only does 1 point of damage - but that's automatic, and there's an automatic point of Strength taken off too. What else? What am I missing with regards to calculating CR?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Well, it does 1d6 damage, not sure why you say 1. On land, these things are pathetic, they can't possibly catch anyone, not even being able to take a 5ft-step. They don't threaten any nearby squares. So, even if you get nauseated you can easily move away from it (on land). So, obviously the plan should be to exit the water and then this thing is a non-issue. A sorcerer with burning hands will take this thing out easily, single-handed. Remember that it's vulnerable to both fire and area effects, and I believe these vulnerabilities stack, so an area effect fire spell will deal double damage.

That said, I agree it is a little tough, but not really beyond level 1. I would consider an ad hoc adjustment if it was in water and it was tough for the party to escape the water.

 

[PJSlavner]

What if the party does not have a caster with a damaging area effect spell? It should not be assumed that every (or even a typical) party, especially one of level 1 characters, has that sort of spell.

 

[hazmat]

Actually I think the CRs are based on a typical party that includes a caster with that type of spell.
It's up to the DM to adjust the CR based on how s/he sets up the encounter.

 

[carborundum]

Yeah - it was the lack of any area spells and the fact that they were ankle deep in water for the first few rounds that made it rather scary. The party was 2nd level but had just had a major fight when they stumbled into the swarm of bloodsuckers.

I can't believe I let it do 1 damage - I'd decided not to bring the FF book with me (as I had so many books in my bag already) and had scribbled the relevant details into my adventure notes instead. Must have got distracted after writing the 1 then overlooked it later.

Mind you, it would have killed two of the party in that case! Probably for the best.

 

[Rvdvelden]

Why not reverse that train of thought. An encounter with this creature is designed for a party that has a damaging area effect spell. So if you as the DM know that 'your' party doesn't have one, why pit them against that monster in the first place? Especially in the water, where it has a specific drawback surpressed? You could've chosen to pit them against a different CR1 creature that fitted their style a bit more.

 

[carborundum]

Well, that was more to do with their timing. They'd just had a serious combat and instead of resting the barbarian decided to start opening doors and looking down corridors alone. He was lucky that the ooze was the only thing left living down there!

Normally the wiz would have had a burning hands or two, but he was out. I'd also made sure there were crates full of torches, oil and lanterns down there - which they remembered in time and used to good effect.

Plus I fancied trying out a swarm and the idea of the bloodbloater fitted the whole sea cave scenario rather well.

I can see it being CR1 in other circumstances - just a useless blob in the distance getting rapidly torched, really. In the water, in the dark though...

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I can see it being CR1 in other circumstances - just a useless blob in the distance getting rapidly torched, really. In the water, in the dark though...

That's why you adjust the EL upward. EL isn't just CRs added together, it's CRs added up and then adjusted environment and circumstances thrown in: A bunch of archers sitting on a shelf in an anti-magic field are more difficult than those who stand 20 feet away from you. An iron golem standing in a firewall that heals it all the time but hurts those who come near will be more difficult. And so on.

 

[carborundum]

So, I could see it as, say EL2 to account for the initial difficulties and the fact that the party was already wounded and out of consumables/ spells.
That brings me to the thing about EL and CR that kind of throws me - the EL lets me know how tough it should be for an 'average' party of 4. The xp, according to the standard rules, is just based on the actual CR of the beast.
So - any difference between the two is a hint to the DM to consider adjusting the standard award. Is that about it?

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I'd definetly throw in some XP bonus, or go by EL for XP.