Bloodclaw - alternative nerf.

[Garthanos]

I dont like the official nerfing for bloodclaw for a number of reasons one is well.. it seriously changes the "gaming" style of who it appeals to... anyone who had it before who liked it for what I consider good reasons won't like it now. Some players like the gamblers game.... if your chance of hitting is 1 in 3, then the bloodclaw was a draw ... so it had both situationality and gamblers appeal.

Increasing the situational element instead of changing the nature of its appeal to players.

Loosing your weapons chance to hit bonus on the attack would have increased the odds of well oops you failed but spent the hit points anyway. The loss of accuracy could even be a representation of the wildness of heroic over exertion .... or pain influence of the self harm .... more flavorful.

OR

One could make it so it only panned out if your attack odds were better than fifty percent (no loss of bonus) but only 2x the damage​

 

[keterys]

Can you clarify what new property you're considering? It's not clear from your text.

 

[Alex319]

Can you clarify what new property you're considering? It's not clear from your text.

I think he's trying to say that it should be like it was pre-errata (so the power is at-will), except that you get a penalty to the attack roll if you use the Bloodclaw power.

I doubt this will really work very well. If you want to trade attack bonus for damage, well - that's what the Power Attack feat is for.

 

[Garthanos]

I think he's trying to say that it should be like it was pre-errata (so the power is at-will), except that you get a penalty to the attack roll if you use the Bloodclaw power.

I doubt this will really work very well. If you want to trade attack bonus for damage, well - that's what the Power Attack feat is for.

Yes keep it an at-will but make that at-will a "real decision".

The enchantments power was a trade off as it stood but it was too good of a trade off ... resulting in it being almost always worth doing ... making it only sometimes worth doing means player choice determines how often it gets used.

• idea one was you dont get the weapons to hit bonus if you use its bloodclaw effect.
  
• idea two was the bloodclaw bonus is only 2x. not 3x ...

mathematically the second idea makes it so if you have even odds of hitting its a toss up.. instead of being useful unless your chance to hit is 33% or less which is how the bloodclaw enchantment worked pre-eratta.

I am with the folk that like properties situational ones.... and if people didnt like gambling the game wouldnt use dice.

 

[Garthanos]

Note power attack is only sometimes worth doing and that cost a feat!... not some cash?

 

[keterys]

Something like the following might meet some of the objections with Bloodclaw as well as meet your requirements.

Power (At-Will): Free Action. Choose a number up to the enhancement bonus of the Bloodclaw weapon and take that much damage. This damage cannot be resisted in any way, nor applied against temporary hp. Subtract that number from your next melee (not close) attack roll made with this weapon. If you hit, you deal additional damage equal to double the number chosen (triple, if using a two-handed weapon).

 

[Garthanos]

Something like the following might meet some of the objections with Bloodclaw as well as meet your requirements.

Power (At-Will): Free Action. Choose a number up to the enhancement bonus of the Bloodclaw weapon and take that much damage. This damage cannot be resisted in any way, nor applied against temporary hp. Subtract that number from your next melee (not close) attack roll made with this weapon. If you hit, you deal additional damage equal to double the number chosen (triple, if using a two-handed weapon).

That feels very much what I was suggesting nicely formal.

I was thinking the two handed weapon benefit of the original was one of the elements which may have made it over the top... but possibly not,

Bloodclaw in its current state just doesnt seem attractive... equipment with the encounters/dailies feel wierd too. Though perhaps I need to look in to house rules which bend that.

 

[Blackbrrd]

Giving a penalty to-hit isn't something I see as a good option.
Letting it only go against real hp is something that can be used by characters that WANT to be bloodied and still have temp hp.

Power (At-Will): Free Action. Choose a number up to the enhancement bonus of the Bloodclaw weapon and take twice that much damage. This damage cannot be resisted in any way. If you hit with your next attack roll, you deal additional damage equal to double the number chosen (triple, if using a two-handed weapon).

In this incarnation it's -4 hp for +2 damage, or 10hp for +5 damage.

To make it even more situational, you can up the damage to self to 3x.

The problem before the nerf was that the cost is way too little.

 

[Garthanos]

Giving a penalty to-hit isn't something I see as a good option.
Letting it only go against real hp is something that can be used by characters that WANT to be bloodied and still have temp hp.

There seem to be more sources of temp hp though... I see a battlerager dragonborn would want exactly that.
Though I like the real damage limit... not temporary ones. (it was my brv controller before brv was nerfed).

The problem before the nerf was that the cost is way too little.

Even A one to one relationship would already make it a bad idea unless you were damn certain not to miss.... or just plain relying on the fact that you
1) have more hitpoints than your enemy or
2 can heal fast and the monster can't so the fighter using regeneration might become the only taker.

At a spend 2 gain 1 dont see anyone taking it

 

[Garthanos]

The one to one between the damage taken and the extra damage dealt would create a connect between this and the Bloodmage paragon path. But it occured to me for the Bloodmage there is an assumption it will be used with attacks targetting multiple opponents.

how about this...

Bloodclaw Symbiont

Property : As a free action you may choose a number up to twice the enhancement bonus of the Bloodclaw Symbiont and take that much damage. This damage cannot be resisted in any way. Your next damage roll this turn deals additional damage equal to the number chosen.

I think this incarnation might be usable - it still would be most appropriate with a regenerating fighter or brv type or in an end the fight faster situation where you figured you were .... well quite ahead.