bludgeon expertise and pushing/sliding

[Uller]

Last night the party fighter said he wanted to knock an oppenent off a ledge using his two handed maul. I'm a "yes and" dm...not wanting to slow the game down to look up a rule I just said sure and justified it with the fact that he has bludgeon expertise (+1 to slide or push with bludgeon attacks). I like when players are creative with terrain. So I said sure you can slide him but he'll get a save but its a one time thing until I find a better ruling...

So....is there a way in the rules he could have slide the foe using his maul? Pushing wouldn't have worked since the target was in a corner with a wall behind him. He had to go side ways.

In the end it didn't matter because he missed....but still id like to know the rule if there is one...

 

[Ferghis]

Bull Rush would be the answer. It's a standard action attack roll that gets worse as the players get higher in level (it lacks the weapon or implement keyword, so it doesn't gain the enhancement bonus OR feat bonuses connected to expertise).

Otherwise you're looking at class powers or houserules.

As a houserule, I would let him make a strength check against a size-related (tough) DC to see if he could push with a BMA. If he forfeited damage for that attack, I would make it easier. As long as both sides can fairly use the trick, it's fine.

 

[Mengu]

Bull rush can't technically slide, it has to be a push.

If you really wanted to go by the rules, what you need is a grab attack. He would need a hand free (just hold his weapon in the off hand for a moment), standard action make a grab attack, action point to take another standard action to move the grabbed target, and pull it. As he moves one square back, he can pull the target over the edge, and let go. Target would still get a save, failing that he would fall.

This of course is so inefficient and has such a low chance of success that no one ever attempts it. Best way to do this stuff is with appropriate powers/feats, like for a fighter, they could use Weapon Master Strike with a Mace.

Since the maneuver is cool, there is nothing wrong with letting it happen once in a while, but it devalues the PC's who made the effort to pick up powers that push/pull/slide/teleport enemies, so they can do fun stuff like this.

 

[the Jester]

DMG pg 42.

 

[Uller]

DMG pg 42.

That's pretty much the way I would have gone if he didn't have bludgeon expertise...sure....you can attempt to knock him or trip him off the ledge. Make a str vs fort or ref attack and I'd give him a low damge and let him slide the target potentially off the ledge.

But I figured that since he had bludgeon exp Id let him just make a straight attk.