Blue Mage
- Thread starter ff6shadow
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RyvenCedrylle
First Post
I like the idea immensely. Way unbalanced compared to the base classes, at least from what I've gotten through so far. It would probably be ok if your party had the fan-created Dragoon, though. They're about on the same level, as far as I can tell. But if you want to run 4E straight, here's a few suggestions:
1) Take the +1 bonus off of Blue Warrior. She's already getting the +2 or +3 proficiency. That oughta be plenty.
2) She only gets the weapon enhancement bonus if the copied power has the Weapon keyword and then not the implement option. Everything else is implement-only
3) Any at-will powers copied REPLACE one currently-known at-will. This gets crazy with a human.
4) Lightning Burst needs some kind of duration, preferably "until the end of your next turn"
5) Shockwave Strike - 1 square. This is an at-will, don't go nuts.
6) Monster powers are not on the same curve as PC powers. Drop Encounter and Daily Talent, and allow Melee and Ranged to pick up any power so you can only have one copied at a time. And while I'm at it, make Melee and Ranged Talent so that they're Encounter powers and then you use either one or the other, like the Channel Divinity or Artificer's current Healing Infusion.
7) Elemental Ward - one type. Gaining multiple resistances at the same time is way overkill.
8) I'm not sure you can take an immediate interrupt and an immediate reaction in the same round, but I may be wrong about this. If I'm right, Just Close Enough won't work.
9) Knock a couple d6s off of Laser. Add another dice to Spark Spin or some ongoing damage. It's barely as good as Scorching Burst as its written now.
10) All your 5th levels need to be 2[W]
And that's as far as I got. As much as I ripped that up, it's a freaking awesome design and would love to see it on the wiki in a more friendly format.
1) Take the +1 bonus off of Blue Warrior. She's already getting the +2 or +3 proficiency. That oughta be plenty.
2) She only gets the weapon enhancement bonus if the copied power has the Weapon keyword and then not the implement option. Everything else is implement-only
3) Any at-will powers copied REPLACE one currently-known at-will. This gets crazy with a human.
4) Lightning Burst needs some kind of duration, preferably "until the end of your next turn"
5) Shockwave Strike - 1 square. This is an at-will, don't go nuts.
6) Monster powers are not on the same curve as PC powers. Drop Encounter and Daily Talent, and allow Melee and Ranged to pick up any power so you can only have one copied at a time. And while I'm at it, make Melee and Ranged Talent so that they're Encounter powers and then you use either one or the other, like the Channel Divinity or Artificer's current Healing Infusion.
7) Elemental Ward - one type. Gaining multiple resistances at the same time is way overkill.
8) I'm not sure you can take an immediate interrupt and an immediate reaction in the same round, but I may be wrong about this. If I'm right, Just Close Enough won't work.
9) Knock a couple d6s off of Laser. Add another dice to Spark Spin or some ongoing damage. It's barely as good as Scorching Burst as its written now.
10) All your 5th levels need to be 2[W]
And that's as far as I got. As much as I ripped that up, it's a freaking awesome design and would love to see it on the wiki in a more friendly format.
That +1 is to demonstrate that it is a fighting focused choice. Otherwise, the class ability is only equal to a feat. It sounds a bit weak without it.
I'm going to remove the enhancment bonus being added to enemy skills entirely. I had forgotten that monsters are already considered to have magical bonuses added into their numbers, so it's overkill.
Why would the at-will powers replace a currently known power? They are only temporary unless you expend healing surges to maintain them.
Lightning burst is a mistake. It now lasts until the end of your next turn.
Is Close Blast 2 low enough for Shockwave Strike? Also changed it to target AC since it has the Weapon keyword.
I haven't seen any monsters that have attacks beyond what a PC of their level could obtain. Since the Talent powers are a primary feature of the class, I'm loath to remove them entirely. I could see pushing them back most of the tier though and applying some kind of penalty to using the copied attacks. Could you mention any particualr monster powers that seem to much?
Elemental Ward now only protect from a single element.
You are right. Just Close Enough Doesn't work as written. I've rewritten it to work properly.
Laser is knocked down to 3d6 to be comparable to the Warlock Encounter 3 power Fiery Bolt. Additionally, as per your suggestion, Spark Spin does ongoing 5 fire damage.
I've double the damage die of all 5th level Dailies as you've suggested
I appreciate your comments and welcome any more suggestions you have in addition to awaiting your answers to my questions?
I'm going to remove the enhancment bonus being added to enemy skills entirely. I had forgotten that monsters are already considered to have magical bonuses added into their numbers, so it's overkill.
Why would the at-will powers replace a currently known power? They are only temporary unless you expend healing surges to maintain them.
Lightning burst is a mistake. It now lasts until the end of your next turn.
Is Close Blast 2 low enough for Shockwave Strike? Also changed it to target AC since it has the Weapon keyword.
I haven't seen any monsters that have attacks beyond what a PC of their level could obtain. Since the Talent powers are a primary feature of the class, I'm loath to remove them entirely. I could see pushing them back most of the tier though and applying some kind of penalty to using the copied attacks. Could you mention any particualr monster powers that seem to much?
Elemental Ward now only protect from a single element.
You are right. Just Close Enough Doesn't work as written. I've rewritten it to work properly.
Laser is knocked down to 3d6 to be comparable to the Warlock Encounter 3 power Fiery Bolt. Additionally, as per your suggestion, Spark Spin does ongoing 5 fire damage.
I've double the damage die of all 5th level Dailies as you've suggested
I appreciate your comments and welcome any more suggestions you have in addition to awaiting your answers to my questions?
RyvenCedrylle
First Post
The reason I have the new at-will replace the current one is because (and I now see I didn't write this down), the healing surge mechanic isn't good as it's written now. CON is not a primary stat and you're already required to have good CHA and at least DEX or STR, maybe both, so you'll get 7, maybe 8 healing surges? If you're going to play frontline warrior with your sword and melee copies, you're going to need way more surges just to do your job. Look at the paladin - he's got the most surges because his Lay on Hands burns them like crazy. Losing 1 surge to not heal out of that few is going to make your workday a lot shorter; any more to hold on to better powers is suicide.
So you could give the Blue Mage, say.. 10 + CON modifier, maybe even 12. That would be a quick fix, although you'd have to play with the number to give it a good fit. Your other option, and better, in my opinion, is to have the copied powers replace current ones, at least for the At-Wills, to maintain balance. Not so much required for the Encounters.. go ask a half-elf about that. Dailies.. I have a feeling giving characters access to an extra Daily power is going to be problematic due to their potency... but since the Daily Talent does no damage, I guess it's ok.. but if you steal it and don't use it almost immediately, you're going to have to burn a surge to keep it.. OK, what I would do is set it up kinda like multiclassing, where you can pick up the Encounter Talent at 3 and Daily at 5, and then change the Enemy Skill keyword so that it replaces a current power until an extended rest or you choose to ditch it. You could then have a low-level Ritual (Retain Enemy Skill) that allows you to retain your swapped powers overnight? Maybe a feat? And still give it a few more healing surges.
Shockwave Strike's 'INT modifier squares' is just too good for an at-will. It needs to be a one-square slide or push.
Overpowered NPC powers.. well, look at the level 4 Young Black Dragon's breath weapon. 1d12+3 acid damage, plus 5 ongoing AND -4 AC(save ends)! No PC has anything even CLOSE to that at level 4, let alone as a recharging power! That's meant for 1 monster to use against a bunch of PCs for one fight, not your Blue Mage to run around with using over several battles AND having 4 other friends. Maybe the Mage gets recharging powers as Encounter powers or even Daily powers?
So you could give the Blue Mage, say.. 10 + CON modifier, maybe even 12. That would be a quick fix, although you'd have to play with the number to give it a good fit. Your other option, and better, in my opinion, is to have the copied powers replace current ones, at least for the At-Wills, to maintain balance. Not so much required for the Encounters.. go ask a half-elf about that. Dailies.. I have a feeling giving characters access to an extra Daily power is going to be problematic due to their potency... but since the Daily Talent does no damage, I guess it's ok.. but if you steal it and don't use it almost immediately, you're going to have to burn a surge to keep it.. OK, what I would do is set it up kinda like multiclassing, where you can pick up the Encounter Talent at 3 and Daily at 5, and then change the Enemy Skill keyword so that it replaces a current power until an extended rest or you choose to ditch it. You could then have a low-level Ritual (Retain Enemy Skill) that allows you to retain your swapped powers overnight? Maybe a feat? And still give it a few more healing surges.
Shockwave Strike's 'INT modifier squares' is just too good for an at-will. It needs to be a one-square slide or push.
Overpowered NPC powers.. well, look at the level 4 Young Black Dragon's breath weapon. 1d12+3 acid damage, plus 5 ongoing AND -4 AC(save ends)! No PC has anything even CLOSE to that at level 4, let alone as a recharging power! That's meant for 1 monster to use against a bunch of PCs for one fight, not your Blue Mage to run around with using over several battles AND having 4 other friends. Maybe the Mage gets recharging powers as Encounter powers or even Daily powers?
Part of the point of using healing surges is that they are of limited supply. If you burn all your surges to maintain enemy powers you run out of healing. At which point your risking your own death. And if you consitently require the party to rest for your benefit, the DM and the party will be likely to get on to you for it. The resource management of maintaining powers outside your normal selection is part of the reasource management. Unless you push Constitution, you likely can't afford to maintain more than a single power, maybe 2. I could see pushing to 8 surges though. You are right though, that the exact number needs playtesting.
Second, outside the at-will talents, the others are essentially, replacing themselves. Each states that if you use it again, you lose the stolen power. And you'll have to select the encounter and daily talent as your daily and encounter power, so there is no net gain of powers. And the at-will talents only allow the use of the power until you use them again, so no net gain of powers there either.
Shockwave Strike was patterned off of the wizard at-will Thunderwave which pushes Wisdom modifier squares. How is it broken? Double so since Intelligence is not a primary stat.
As for the dragon breath, encounter powers with a recharge are learned through the use of your Daily Talent, which requires a higher skill check than the encounter or at-will talents. Assuming you are level 4 with an (optimistic) 16 Intelligence and training in Arcana, you have a +10 to the skill check vs. a DC 27 Arcana check to learn the ability. Thanks to suggestions by Aluman on the gleemax boards, it is very difficult to learn the daily and encounter recharge powers of creatures of your level. In contrast you need a DC 22 to get ordinary encounter powers with Encounter Talent and a DC 17 to At-Will powers with your class feature talents. Assuming you make this impressive skill check, you get to use the dragons breath as a daily power this battle, that will recharge only suring this encounter, or spend a healing surge to have it as a daily power for the day. You can contiue to spend this healing surge to keep it as a daily power for as long as you want. Either way, it is always a daily power. However, it is certainly on the strong side. Perhaps delaying Daily Talent to 5th level would work?
Second, outside the at-will talents, the others are essentially, replacing themselves. Each states that if you use it again, you lose the stolen power. And you'll have to select the encounter and daily talent as your daily and encounter power, so there is no net gain of powers. And the at-will talents only allow the use of the power until you use them again, so no net gain of powers there either.
Shockwave Strike was patterned off of the wizard at-will Thunderwave which pushes Wisdom modifier squares. How is it broken? Double so since Intelligence is not a primary stat.
As for the dragon breath, encounter powers with a recharge are learned through the use of your Daily Talent, which requires a higher skill check than the encounter or at-will talents. Assuming you are level 4 with an (optimistic) 16 Intelligence and training in Arcana, you have a +10 to the skill check vs. a DC 27 Arcana check to learn the ability. Thanks to suggestions by Aluman on the gleemax boards, it is very difficult to learn the daily and encounter recharge powers of creatures of your level. In contrast you need a DC 22 to get ordinary encounter powers with Encounter Talent and a DC 17 to At-Will powers with your class feature talents. Assuming you make this impressive skill check, you get to use the dragons breath as a daily power this battle, that will recharge only suring this encounter, or spend a healing surge to have it as a daily power for the day. You can contiue to spend this healing surge to keep it as a daily power for as long as you want. Either way, it is always a daily power. However, it is certainly on the strong side. Perhaps delaying Daily Talent to 5th level would work?
Pretty big update today. Changed 11 powers, added 7 powers, added 2 more healing surges, and altered the class skills. Most of the added powers were weapon based, as I noticed a real lack of weapon options at many levels.
Unless somebody wants to comment on the balance of the powers and abilities, I'll likely declare this class finished.
[sblock=07/31/06 - - 10:00 PM]-----Increases Healing Surges by 2
-----Removed Insight from the Class skills
-----Added Bluff and Athletics to the class skills.
-----Changed the Range on Lightning Burst to 5 Burst 1
-----Changed Daily Talent from Daily 1 Spells to Daily 5 spells
-----Added the power Baleful Blast to Daily 1.
-----Added the power Double Slash to Daily 1
-----Added the power Fearful Blade to Daily 5
-----Changed Aquabreath from pushing 4 to pushing 3
-----Removed the Miss effect from Encounter 7 Acid Blow
-----Added the power Searing Blade to Daily 9
-----Added the power Rain of Blades to Daily 15
-----Added the power Fanning the Flame to Encounter 13
-----Changed the damage of Encounter 17 Earth Shaker from 5d6 to 4d6.
-----Changed the Encounter 17 power Earth Shaker to target you as well as all creatures in the burst.
-----Changed the Encounter 23 power Condemned to have a -2 penalty to the attack roll.
-----Changed the Daily 25 power 1000 Needles to deal 6d6 damage instead of 8d6, sustain for 3d6 instead of 4d6, and have a -3 penalty to saving throws to end the sustain effect.
-----Added the Daily 25 power Blinking Shadows
-----Changed the Encounter 27 power Nova to deal 4d8 damage instead of 6d8
-----Changed the Daily 29 power Doppleganger Attack to have a +2 to each attack.
-----Changed the feat Hybrid Style to offer a bonus to hit to Blue Wizards instead of a weapon proficiency.[/sblock]
Unless somebody wants to comment on the balance of the powers and abilities, I'll likely declare this class finished.
[sblock=07/31/06 - - 10:00 PM]-----Increases Healing Surges by 2
-----Removed Insight from the Class skills
-----Added Bluff and Athletics to the class skills.
-----Changed the Range on Lightning Burst to 5 Burst 1
-----Changed Daily Talent from Daily 1 Spells to Daily 5 spells
-----Added the power Baleful Blast to Daily 1.
-----Added the power Double Slash to Daily 1
-----Added the power Fearful Blade to Daily 5
-----Changed Aquabreath from pushing 4 to pushing 3
-----Removed the Miss effect from Encounter 7 Acid Blow
-----Added the power Searing Blade to Daily 9
-----Added the power Rain of Blades to Daily 15
-----Added the power Fanning the Flame to Encounter 13
-----Changed the damage of Encounter 17 Earth Shaker from 5d6 to 4d6.
-----Changed the Encounter 17 power Earth Shaker to target you as well as all creatures in the burst.
-----Changed the Encounter 23 power Condemned to have a -2 penalty to the attack roll.
-----Changed the Daily 25 power 1000 Needles to deal 6d6 damage instead of 8d6, sustain for 3d6 instead of 4d6, and have a -3 penalty to saving throws to end the sustain effect.
-----Added the Daily 25 power Blinking Shadows
-----Changed the Encounter 27 power Nova to deal 4d8 damage instead of 6d8
-----Changed the Daily 29 power Doppleganger Attack to have a +2 to each attack.
-----Changed the feat Hybrid Style to offer a bonus to hit to Blue Wizards instead of a weapon proficiency.[/sblock]
