Bluff and Sense Motive in Roleplaying Encounters

[Zappo]

I have PCs do checks when I know that the outcome is important, or when they require it. Or when I feel like it. I don't want players to believe that whenever I call for a Sense Motive check, the other folk is necessarily lying.

My answer for a Sense Motive is usually
- "you think he is lying" if the PC won the check against a bluffing NPC.
- "you think he is telling the truth" if the NPC wasn't bluffing or if the PC rolled high, but still lost.
- "you have no idea" if the PC rolls low and loses. To prevent metagaming, I occasionally say one of the other two in this case (if the PC rolls high and loses, he is good enough to at least tell that he has no idea).

I also use Sense Motive as a generic "empathy" skill. You can use it to tell if someone is excited, sad, worried and so on. All the same, with Bluff you can fake any emotion.

 

[Velenne]

With the various +skill items being so cheap (+20 to my Bluff, for instance, is only 8k), this has the ability to get out of hand quickly. If my mid-level rogue has one of these items, max ranks in bluff, and high charisma, he might have +35 or more to his bluff checks. No NPC I can think of is going to have that many ranks in Sense Motive, especially considering it's a cross-class skill for all but very few classes and PrC's. Suddenly the ridiculous example given in the PHB about being a lammasu polymorphed into a halfling can actually be pulled off....without rolling.

 

[Mort]

With the various +skill items being so cheap (+20 to my Bluff, for instance, is only 8k), this has the ability to get out of hand quickly. If my mid-level rogue has one of these items, max ranks in bluff, and high charisma, he might have +35 or more to his bluff checks. No NPC I can think of is going to have that many ranks in Sense Motive, especially considering it's a cross-class skill for all but very few classes and PrC's. Suddenly the ridiculous example given in the PHB about being a lammasu polymorphed into a halfling can actually be pulled off....without rolling.

If the DM is handing out +20 skill items like candy, he has only himself to blame for the results. Just because an item is “only” 8K does not mean it is readily available (and besides if a +20 to bluff is that easily available why isn't a +20 to sense motive?).
Also, these items take some time to make – making it difficult for PC wizards if the DM keeps the campaign moving.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

And thus any DM who so slavishly follows the pricing guidelines as to allow a permanent plus 20 bluff item at 8k deserves what he gets.

Even the DMG says that the cost guidelines are only guidelines and should not be interpreted as prescriptive but rather as a starting point for pricing items. This is especially apparent in cases which could be analyzed under one or more sets of descriptions (like a wondrous item granting prot. evil--it could be unlimited times/day use activated 1st level spell or a +2 deflection bonus and +2 resistance bonus with no space limitation functional only against evil foes (30% cost reduction) also granting major immunities (ad hoc pricing)). It is no less true in other cases, however.

There's a reason that there are rings of swimming and rings of jumping but no rings of bluff in the DMG.

With the various +skill items being so cheap (+20 to my Bluff, for instance, is only 8k), this has the ability to get out of hand quickly. If my mid-level rogue has one of these items, max ranks in bluff, and high charisma, he might have +35 or more to his bluff checks. No NPC I can think of is going to have that many ranks in Sense Motive, especially considering it's a cross-class skill for all but very few classes and PrC's. Suddenly the ridiculous example given in the PHB about being a lammasu polymorphed into a halfling can actually be pulled off....without rolling.

 

[Sarellion]

I use Bluff and similar skills as an indicator how good the character can lie. If he rolled poorly his body language or something else is out of sync with what he says.

I use Sense Motive on demand and some important situations I think it´s appropriate.

 

[maddman75]

Here's how I use them - pretty similar to what most other have said.

Bluff - Characters don't choose to bluff. When they are BSing an NPC and either there's a big risk if the character doesn't believe him or its starting to get pretty unbelieveable, I'll call for a bluff check.

Sense Motive - You *have* to ask for sense motive. If your pc thinks that this guy is running a line of BS, a sense motive check will tell how much you believe what he's saying. In the above example, I would NOT give an unaskedfor Sense Motive check.

 

[Sarellion]

Double post

Sorry