Bluff as a free action.

[Elvinis75]

Last attempt

The rule does not specify "no more than 1 free action of any type"
thus your limit of 1 is "depending on individual discretion and not fixed by law". It is not a paradox, the rules call for an arbitrary call. Did you think I was insulting you in some way?

I was a little but not a lot. But I still can't see how you can't see the example in the book. The example is clear. A story is easly broken down into a collection of free action statements. Each of these statements is a free action but the collection of them is not. That is clear to me. Maybe not to you. I Agree to disagree with you there.

Who said you shouldn't place reasonable limits on free actions? Your limit of 1 location to draw daggers from or 1 free action bluff in a round isn't reasonable. If these things take about the same time and concentration as speaking a word, a limit of 1 isn't reasonable.

By your logic, if I had 3 daggers on my right hip, 3 daggers on my left hip, and 2 up my slieves, the most I could ever throw in a round is 3, even with quickdaw. That is within DM purview, but outside of reasonable for me.

Who said that I was limiting it to one. In the paragragh that you quoted I said 2 bluffs and three quick draws from the same location. Saying that setting up a bluff takes 3 seconds is not that unreasonable. We are not talking about setting up an opening. We are talking about setting up the perfect opening. Further regarding the quick draw I said that if they were in the same spot I as a DM would allow a knife fighter to draw multiple at the same time thus allowing them to pull definitely more than they can throw.

Nothing says that all free actions take the same amount of time. Yelling "duck" takes less time than "duck there is a monster behind you". Further looking at the free action description again:

Free Action: A character can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally.

This, along with the story example, says to me that they are taking time but they are not changing the rest of the dynamic of the combat round. Therefor free actions work in parallel with other different free actions but not with more of the same type.
One can't say three statements at the same time nor could he bluff three different times at the same moment.

Well this is as clear as I can make it. If we still don't have a meeting of the minds then it isn't meant to be.

 

[LokiDR]

Re: Last attempt

I was a little but not a lot. But I still can't see how you can't see the example in the book. The example is clear. A story is easly broken down into a collection of free action statements. Each of these statements is a free action but the collection of them is not. That is clear to me. Maybe not to you. I Agree to disagree with you there.

I did not intend to insult. If I want to offend a person, I would like to believe I could be more...direct.

And we are not talking about a novel. We are talking about 4 words vs 1.

Who said that I was limiting it to one. In the paragragh that you quoted I said 2 bluffs and three quick draws from the same location. Saying that setting up a bluff takes 3 seconds is not that unreasonable. We are not talking about setting up an opening. We are talking about setting up the perfect opening. Further regarding the quick draw I said that if they were in the same spot I as a DM would allow a knife fighter to draw multiple at the same time thus allowing them to pull definitely more than they can throw.

You said you were limiting it to one.

Faking someone out of their shorts two or three times in the same round isn't.

I origninally objected to this statement. If you have revised your view, I can accept that.

We are talking about bluffing a person at roughly the same rate you speak a word. Not 3 seconds.

Quickdrawing from different hips should be on the same order of difficulty as a bandolier. The use of quickdraw should not be dependant on a campaign setting item.

Nothing says that all free actions take the same amount of time. Yelling "duck" takes less time than "duck there is a monster behind you". Further looking at the free action description again:

No, not the same. But they are on the same order. Speaking a word takes more time than opening your hand to drop somthing. Dropping to the gound takes more time than many words. They are all on the same order though.

Free Action: A character can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally.

One or more. With the "reasonable limit" clause, a character should be able to draw 500 daggers.

This, along with the story example, says to me that they are taking time but they are not changing the rest of the dynamic of the combat round. Therefor free actions work in parallel with other different free actions but not with more of the same type.
One can't say three statements at the same time nor could he bluff three different times at the same moment.

Well this is as clear as I can make it. If we still don't have a meeting of the minds then it isn't meant to be.

You can't say three things at the same time. But you can say three things in a round.

You can't free action bluff three times at the same moment. But you can free action bluff three times in a round.

 

[Elvinis75]

It isn't meant to be I guess. I guess that your idea of fienting in combat is different than mine. Respectfully, I'll agree to disagree. Thus far I have proven that all free actions do not take the same amount of time. In fact I agree with you that they take different amounts of time. Dropping something takes less time than drawing something, saying a 10 word phase take more time then both of them. Who knows the exact time that it takes to not just create an opening but to create a perfect opening. Not you or I for sure. So until it is spelled out in the book nobody is right because the ruling says draw an opinion based on reasonability which will vary from person to person. In the great words of FES
"I say good day!"

 

[LokiDR]

It isn't meant to be I guess. I guess that your idea of fienting in combat is different than mine. Respectfully, I'll agree to disagree. Thus far I have proven that all free actions do not take the same amount of time. In fact I agree with you that they take different amounts of time. Dropping something takes less time than drawing something, saying a 10 word phase take more time then both of them. Who knows the exact time that it takes to not just create an opening but to create a perfect opening. Not you or I for sure. So until it is spelled out in the book nobody is right because the ruling says draw an opinion based on reasonability which will vary from person to person. In the great words of FES
"I say good day!"

And I still say a limit of 1 on a free action is an arbitrary decision which ignores the concept of a free action. If the action was meant to be limited to a single use per round, it would state such in the description of the ability.

Have a nice day.

 

[HandofMystra]

No one will notice this because the thread is 5 years old, but you can only feint in combat for a melee attack. It needs to a melee attack (3.5 PHB 68). So alot of these balance arguments are moot

 

[vectner]

Until I read that last post I thought this was a new discussion. Anyway, I think according to the PHB feinting in combat is a standard action. Is there a feat that makes it a free action? I wouldn't want to bother doing a PRC for that one feature.

 

[roguerouge]

Is it even possible to Feint a ranged attack?

I take it you've never played dodge ball (freezing an opponent). Or soccer (shooting at one place while looking at the other part of the net). Or football (looking off a defender before throwing to your WR.).