Bluff as a free action.

[LokiDR]

I still don't understand how Elvinis could claim that the free-action draw-from-a-bandolier is somehow a different sort of free action to the free-action Quick-Draw.


-Hyp.

My divination is rusty, just like my probability, but I'll give this a shot.

Conceptually, it is easier to pull a bunch of knives out of one place (the bandoleer) than stashed all over yourself (left boot, right hip, left sleeve, behind your collar). So the bandoleer doesn't break verisimilitude the way quick-draw does.

Wait, the crystal ball is hazy. It could mean that a person could grab a hand full of daggers from the bandoleer at once, as they are all in the same place, as opposed to boot, other boot, hip, ect.

Wait, no, my crystal ball is just giving me static. Never mind, I don't know what he was thinking. Whatever it was, it wasn't part of the rules.

P. S. Hyp, why are we the only ones up discussing at this hour? And why do I always seem to be debating you? Is there a conspiracy

 

[Hypersmurf]

P. S. Hyp, why are we the only ones up discussing at this hour?

"At this hour" here is 9pm

-Hyp.

 

[LokiDR]

"At this hour" here is 9pm

-Hyp.

Exactly. Time for all us pre-pubesent gaming geeks to get to bed.

Elsewhere in the world, it is past 2am and no one else seems to be posting right now.

 

[Elvinis75]

"At this hour" here is 9pm

-Hyp.

The comment about the bandoleer wasn't about the rules it was about logic. The rules IMO are quite clear.

Quick Draw [General]
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1 or higher.
Benefit: The character can draw a weapon as a free action instead of as a move-equivalent action.

Nothing in this desciption says that this works for as many weapons as you would like.

The quote on free action is clear:
Free Action: A character can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, the DM puts reasonable limits on what a character can really do for free.

As a DM the rules are clear to me. Drawing multiple daggers from the same location is reasonable. Faking someone out of their shorts two or three times in the same round isn't.

 

[LokiDR]

As a DM the rules are clear to me. Drawing multiple daggers from the same location is reasonable. Faking someone out of their shorts two or three times in the same round isn't.

That is an arbitrary decision which ignores the concept of a free action. I have seen people fake out others multiple times in a few seconds. I have no problem with people drawing multiple daggers from different locations in a round. What you think is unreasonable isn't universal.

 

[Elvinis75]

That is an arbitrary decision which ignores the concept of a free action. I have seen people fake out others multiple times in a few seconds. I have no problem with people drawing multiple daggers from different locations in a round. What you think is unreasonable isn't universal.

Though I agree that what I think isn’t universal(whose Opinion ever is?) I completely disagree with the fact that it is arbitrary. The idea with a free action is that you can take one or more of them in a round. The second idea is that there should be limits to how many and what actions are allowed t be combined and still constitute a free action. I have seen Barry Sanders fake a person out of their jock strap by taking an action. However doing that to the degree that is necessary to make a person lose their sense of dexterity is different than making miss a tackle. Give a specific example of a person faking out a person 3 or more times hardly spending a second on it. I haven’t seen anything that makes me believe that it is something that is easier than saying three different things to 3 people in 6 seconds. Something that I wouldn’t allow.

 

[Angcuru]

That is an arbitrary decision which ignores the concept of a free action. I have seen people fake out others multiple times in a few seconds....What you think is unreasonable isn't universal.

He's right. Ever watched boxing?

 

[Zhure]

He's right. Ever watched boxing?

Yeah, but boxing with a ranged attack is different. Feints in dodgeball usually take longer, you've gotta do the double-pump, then throw....

 

[LokiDR]

Though I agree that what I think isn’t universal(whose Opinion ever is?) I completely disagree with the fact that it is arbitrary. The idea with a free action is that you can take one or more of them in a round. The second idea is that there should be limits to how many and what actions are allowed t be combined and still constitute a free action. I have seen Barry Sanders fake a person out of their jock strap by taking an action. However doing that to the degree that is necessary to make a person lose their sense of dexterity is different than making miss a tackle. Give a specific example of a person faking out a person 3 or more times hardly spending a second on it. I haven’t seen anything that makes me believe that it is something that is easier than saying three different things to 3 people in 6 seconds. Something that I wouldn’t allow.

It is arbitrary, because you just said "it doesn't make sense". You have no rule based reason to place the limit after 1 bluff or weapon draw.

Take the example of speaking a word. Free action. DMs should limit this so people are not having conversations in combat. Is there any reason not to allow speaking 3 words? Not really.

You placed an arbitrary limit on the free action. This isn't outside of what you are allowed to do as the DM, but neither is declaring that a PC has just been hit by a bovine from low orbit.

A free action is a free action. If you limit the number of weapons drawn by use of quickdraw, you should also limit the number of words a person can speak in a round to same number. They take the same effore the character with the quickdraw feat. Likewise the character with bluff as a free action. Is this a supernatural ability? If it is, just blame magic.

 

[LokiDR]

Yeah, but boxing with a ranged attack is different. Feints in dodgeball usually take longer, you've gotta do the double-pump, then throw....

There is a limit of how realistic D&D is. How many people can jump off a 50 story high rise, land, and walk away without a problem? How many 18th level barbarians can do exactly that?

If a person had trained hard enough, I imagine they could hit very dexterous people over and over. You could think of it as reading your opponent, ignoring their attempts to avoid your shots. It is not outside the realm of reason. It is pretty fantastic, which means it fits in D&D.