Bluff as a free action.

[Apok]

Uh, Free Action.

You could use this before each and every attack in a Full Attack action.

Going strictly by the letter of the rules, yes, but the PHB recommends that the DM limit the number of "free actions" that a character can take in a round. I, personally, wouldn't allow this character to Feint between each attack in a Full Attack, but that's just me.

Even so, Rogues can still get off SA's on every attack just by using good flanking tactics. All this ability does is give the Rogue an extra option if he happens to be fighting somebody one-on-one (probably not a great idea for a straight-up Rogue, but it could happen).

 

[Angcuru]

I think this is a bit overpowered. Here's why:

Rogue with Bluff and 2 attacks + a Speed dagger

BLUFF
SNEAK ATTACK
BLUFF
SNEAK ATTACK
BLUFF
SNEAK ATTACK

A.K.A. Sub-Nuke.

Now, Imagine if a dual-wielding Blackguard took the class (assuming that they can). At high enough levels you can get:

BLUFF
SNEAK ATTACK
BLUFF
SNEAK ATTACK
BLUFF
SNEAK ATTACK
BLUFF
SNEAK ATTACK
BLUFF
SNEAK ATTACK
BLUFF
SNEAK ATTACK

now if he has two Speed Kukris, tack on another two of those. FEAR PERFECT TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING muahahahahaaaaa.

it's too abusable, plain and simple.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Now one could argue that you could get
bluff attack bluff attack ...etc

Yup.

Example: Quickdraw. A free action to draw a weapon.

Absolutely required for a shuriken or dagger thrower, because unlike using ammunition (like arrows), you must expend an action to draw a weapon.

So if you have four attacks plus Rapid Shot each round, your Full Attack Action is

Throw dagger (attack)
Quickdraw dagger (free)
Throw dagger (attack)
Quickdraw dagger (free)
Throw dagger (attack)
Quickdraw dagger (free)
Throw dagger (attack)
Quickdraw dagger (free)
Throw dagger (attack)
Quickdraw dagger (free)

-Hyp.

 

[Elvinis75]

Yup.

Example: Quickdraw. A free action to draw a weapon.

Absolutely required for a shuriken or dagger thrower, because unlike using ammunition (like arrows), you must expend an action to draw a weapon.

So if you have four attacks plus Rapid Shot each round, your Full Attack Action is

Throw dagger (attack)
Quickdraw dagger (free)
Throw dagger (attack)
Quickdraw dagger (free)
Throw dagger (attack)
Quickdraw dagger (free)
Throw dagger (attack)
Quickdraw dagger (free)
Throw dagger (attack)
Quickdraw dagger (free)

-Hyp.

Selective quotes hmmm.... I think that it shouldn't be allowed as it seems to break the idea that is set forth in the free action paragraph. If one uses the most liberal interp. it can be abused.
"However, the DM puts reasonable limits on what a character can really do for free. " I think that I wouldn't allow the example that you have above. 5 of the same actions done one after another screams abuse.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I think that I wouldn't allow the example that you have above. 5 of the same actions done one after another screams abuse.

So a dagger thrower is an invalid concept in your games, despite the fact that someone can fire five arrows in a round with no problem?

-Hyp.

 

[Elvinis75]

So a dagger thrower is an invalid concept in your games, despite the fact that someone can fire five arrows in a round with no problem?

-Hyp.

Thats not what I'm saying at all. I would let him draw multiple at the same time. Is this dagger thrower thinking that he is going to keep the daggers all over himself but a long distance away from each other. What kind of thrower are you thinking about?
The one from desperado(sp) is the one that I always think of.

 

[Angcuru]

Is this dagger thrower thinking that he is going to keep the daggers all over himself but a long distance away from each other.

I don't quite get what you mean. Please explain.

 

[Elvinis75]

I don't quite get what you mean. Please explain.

In short the daggers that I imagine used for throwing are smaller than normal daggers about 8-9" in length. They are not melee weapons. Sure a melee dagger can be thrown but these smaller ones are easier to carry. In like a bandeliro(sp). Even if one was using the normal by the book daggers I would still think that they are going to be kept in the same area so that ones not on his hip one on his leg, one in each boot. I wish I could find a picture of that knife thrower. He was bad a$$!

 

[LokiDR]

A thrown dagger is no different than a melee dagger in D&D.

How about this: quickdraw dagger, bluff, throw for sneak attack, quickdraw dagger, bluff, throw for sneak attack, quickdraw dagger, bluff, throw for sneak attack (assuming haste)

I can see this as abusable if the DM lets it be (doesn't limit free actions in a round).

 

[Elvinis75]

A thrown dagger is no different than a melee dagger in D&D.

How about this: quickdraw dagger, bluff, throw for sneak attack, quickdraw dagger, bluff, throw for sneak attack, quickdraw dagger, bluff, throw for sneak attack (assuming haste)

I can see this as abusable if the DM lets it be (doesn't limit free actions in a round).

Agreed. IMC there is. But there is no way as a DM I'm going to let a character draw 3 or 4 weapons a round as free actions much lets bluff someone three to four times. Common sense an the rules on free actions clearly lead to a different ruling. All I suppose IMHO.
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