[Bo9S] Question regarding Manuevers & Stances...

[AFGNCAAP]

Quick question:

A friend of mine is currently running a 3.5 D&D campaign, and 2 of the PCs are using classes from the Book of Nine Swords. A discussion/debate/argument came about regarding the use of manuevers & stances.

For the longest time, the 1st player with 1 of these classes used manuevers very frequently—in fact, she used them (esp. those with a standard action Initiation Action) as part of a full attack action.

Recently, though, it was brought up that this use was wrong: Since the Manuever required a standard action to use, it could not be used as part of a full-round full attack option. It was argued that, in essence, it's like a spell—it takes a standard action to use, and it does the (greater) amount damage (& other things) when performed. After it's done, you can only make a move action afterward, and not another standard action (or "finish out" a full attack that round).

Is this a correct interpretation of the rules? With the severe amounts of damage possible with a manuever (comparable with some higher-level spells damage wise), it seems like this would eb the case. The character could either use a full-round action for a full attack, or use a standard action for using a manuever instead (and have just a move action before or afterward, accordingly).

I'd appreciate any info you can provide. Haven't had any luck finding official errata/mention on the matter.

 

[Nifft]

There's no errata, because it should say clearly in the book: using a maneuver costs the specified action, and none cost an Attack action. Most Strikes are either Standard or Full-Round actions; most Counters are Immediate actions (duh); there are some miscellaneous other maneuvers which are Move actions (Shadow Stride, IIRC).

Maneuvers can never be used as part of a full attack (or even as part of a charge attack, unless the maneuver specifically says otherwise). There are some maneuvers which grant you a full attack, but that's spelled out in the text of the maneuver.

I don't have my book handy, but IIRC this is all explained in the chapter before the maneuver list.

Cheers, -- N

 

[AFGNCAAP]

There's no errata, because it should say clearly in the book: using a maneuver costs the specified action, and none cost an Attack action. Most Strikes are either Standard or Full-Round actions; most Counters are Immediate actions (duh); there are some miscellaneous other maneuvers which are Move actions (Shadow Stride, IIRC).

Maneuvers can never be used as part of a full attack (or even as part of a charge attack, unless the maneuver specifically says otherwise). There are some maneuvers which grant you a full attack, but that's spelled out in the text of the maneuver.

I don't have my book handy, but IIRC this is all explained in the chapter before the maneuver list.

Cheers, -- N

That's what I thought—it was a point of argument to grind the game down for quite some time, though. For some, the text didn't state the issue clearly enough.

Here's another point of argument I've had to deal with: sneak attack—only once per round, IIRC. The argument for multiple sneak attacks by the same character in a round has been that it doesn't explicity state that it uses a standard action (or can't be used as part of a full attack action).

These points are all moot with 4th ed., AFAIK, but I just want to deal with them while the current 3.5 games are going on (it hasn't been an issue before, because few characters with these abilities had multiple attacks in a round for quite some time).

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Sneak Attack is gained on every attack, as long as the conditions are met. A TWF Rogue flanking with the Fighter to full attack SA the bad guys is a pretty common occurance. (And the Rogue better hope those attacks do the job, lest the enemy turn its full ire upon the his puny d6 HD...)

 

[Corsair]

Sneak attack damage is applied to every attack that qualifies, regardless of how many you make.

The exception to this is volleys, where you only apply sneak attack to one of the shots. (Many shot and some ray spells for example)

 

[Nadaka]

I would also point out boosts (even those few that grant attacks), as a swift action can be used in the same round as a full attack.

 

[moritheil]

It was argued that, in essence, it's like a spell—it takes a standard action to use, and it does the (greater) amount damage (& other things) when performed. After it's done, you can only make a move action afterward, and not another standard action (or "finish out" a full attack that round).

In the spirit that you meant it, I find that to be a reasonable statement to make about maneuvers. Note carefully that there is no explicit clause stating that you may not take another standard action, so if you have one from, say, a belt of battle, you can still take it. It's just that this eats up the standard action that has to be available for you to take a full attack.

 

[Andor]

All strikes are either standard or full round actions, although some of them allow one or more full attacks in the course of executing the strikes.

Boosts as mentioned can be stacked onto normal attacks, as can damage from stances.

And yes sneak attack damage applies to any number of attacks as long as the conditions allowing the sneak attack still apply.

 

[Nifft]

Here's another point of argument I've had to deal with: sneak attack—only once per round, IIRC. The argument for multiple sneak attacks by the same character in a round has been that it doesn't explicity state that it uses a standard action (or can't be used as part of a full attack action).

You are incorrect here. Any attack that qualifies as a Sneak Attack will deal extra Sneak Attack damage.

The Rogue is expected to use Sneak Attack once per round on average. This means some rounds he won't be able to use it, and thus must use it multiple times on other rounds to compensate.

Cheers, -- N