Boccob's Blessed Book
- Thread starter Bastoche
- Start date
Ridley's Cohort
First Post
Shard O'Glase said:
I assume you mistyped and meant "scribing spells".
Anyway, I can back you up on the cost estimate. I would say a wizard should expect to spend about one third of his wealth on the scribing costs of learning new spells, and it is tempting to spend more. You pretty much have to make up the cost by crafting items or you would be better off as a sorceror.
If you buy 2 spell per level, you will have spent 30% of your nominal wealth (according to table 2-24 in the DMG) at 8th level, dropping slowly to 20% at 12th.
InvaderSquoosh
First Post
Bastoche, thanks for creating this thread. It was me who brought up the possibility of using Boccob's blessed book as a scribing cost workaround in the sorcerer thread. I wasn't certain if it is possible, but the consensus seems to be that it is.
I don't think the balance was broken due to this book. In fact, this is what I'd expect wizards of high levels to be using. It would be silly for wizards to continue scribing spells on mundane tomes at really high levels. Even if it seems kind of cheap, it's still a tome and an enterprising Bastard DM from Hell can certainly toast the book. Carrying 45 extremely valuable spells in one tome is a liability as much as it is a luxury. I'd keep copies around at higher level.
I don't think the balance was broken due to this book. In fact, this is what I'd expect wizards of high levels to be using. It would be silly for wizards to continue scribing spells on mundane tomes at really high levels. Even if it seems kind of cheap, it's still a tome and an enterprising Bastard DM from Hell can certainly toast the book. Carrying 45 extremely valuable spells in one tome is a liability as much as it is a luxury. I'd keep copies around at higher level.
IceBear
Explorer
But everything a Bastard DM can do to a BBB he can do to a normal spellbook, so I don't see that as a balancing factor. I haven't looked at the item damage rules, but wouldn't the BBB have an easier time of not being destroyed than a regular book just because it's a magic item?
IceBear
IceBear
Rel
Liquid Awesome
I've got a question for those of you posting in this topic. I realize that this should technically go in House Rules but you folks are already in the mindset of analyzing the scribing costs and I'd appreciate your opinions.
My question is this:
Do you think that my house rules (detailed below) excessively favor the Wizard over the Sorcerer or vice-versa?
The house rules are as follows:
1) Wizards get NO free spells when they advance in level. All spells they can prepare must be found in the form of scrolls and spellbooks.
2) Scribing costs are reduced to 10% of normal (i.e. 10 GP per page). Scribing time is the same as the core rules. The GP cost for scribing is the money paid for special ink. This is a comodity purchasable in almost any town of at least medium size and it must be tracked. If you run out of ink while in the wilderness or in a dungeon, you don't just get to spin gold into new spells in your spellbook.
3) A found spellbook can be used to prepare spells from, even if the Wizard doesn't copy the spells to his own spellbook. But he must take a day to "understand" each new spell he wishes to prepare from it. This requires a Spellcraft Check (DC20+Spell Level).
4) Sorcerers may Specialize, just like Wizards. They get one extra known spell from the speciality school at each new Spell Level they are able to cast. (i.e. They know an extra 1st level spell, an extra 2nd level spell, etc.)
Any thoughts?
My question is this:
Do you think that my house rules (detailed below) excessively favor the Wizard over the Sorcerer or vice-versa?
The house rules are as follows:
1) Wizards get NO free spells when they advance in level. All spells they can prepare must be found in the form of scrolls and spellbooks.
2) Scribing costs are reduced to 10% of normal (i.e. 10 GP per page). Scribing time is the same as the core rules. The GP cost for scribing is the money paid for special ink. This is a comodity purchasable in almost any town of at least medium size and it must be tracked. If you run out of ink while in the wilderness or in a dungeon, you don't just get to spin gold into new spells in your spellbook.
3) A found spellbook can be used to prepare spells from, even if the Wizard doesn't copy the spells to his own spellbook. But he must take a day to "understand" each new spell he wishes to prepare from it. This requires a Spellcraft Check (DC20+Spell Level).
4) Sorcerers may Specialize, just like Wizards. They get one extra known spell from the speciality school at each new Spell Level they are able to cast. (i.e. They know an extra 1st level spell, an extra 2nd level spell, etc.)
Any thoughts?
IceBear
Explorer
I really don't know. In my campaign world I realized I was giving about 1/2 the recommended gold so I cut the scribing costs in half (but that just maintained the status quo). If you're giving enough gold I get a feeling that this might make it too easy on the wizard (even without the two free spells per level), but I'll let those that have been dealing with this longer than I have give their better opinions.
With respect to the no free spells, that could be brutal on the wizard character if there is no downtime to research or scribe.
IceBear
With respect to the no free spells, that could be brutal on the wizard character if there is no downtime to research or scribe.
IceBear
WizarDru
Adventurer
Rel said:
Well, I'm not sure that they favor the Sorceror, but the only way to tell is by the DM (you) and the game. On the one hand, you've reduced scribing cost...a great benefit at lower levels, but a trivial benefit at higher levels, potentially. However, you've offset this by removing the free spell benefit from Wizards, hence increasing their scribing cost by two spells per level.
Essentially, how this favors someone depends on how often they find other wizard's spellbooks, how available spells are on the open market, and so forth. Depending on your management of same, it could be a benefit, penalty or just an alternate system, which is what it sounds like you're shooting for.
In general, scribing costs are what you make of them. The time to scribe can also be a limiting factor, depending on the DM. Under your system, scribing costs become negligeble after say, 5th level....if you award treasure close to the DMG standard.
WizarDru
Adventurer
As to the costs of scribing itself, I don't see it as a problem, either way. The relatively low cost of manufacturing items (scrolls, potions, wands and so forth) helps offset the cost from scribing, somewhat. Further, the gold cost for the wizard offsets the cost for magic equipment for the non-spellcasters, at least with relation to combat effectiveness.
In my main game, the party wizard has a BBB, in the beta game I run, the wizard did not, nor was I likely to let him have one...mostly due to the reduced financial levels of that game.
In my main game, the party wizard has a BBB, in the beta game I run, the wizard did not, nor was I likely to let him have one...mostly due to the reduced financial levels of that game.
Rel
Liquid Awesome
I intend to list some of the benefits I've realized from these house rules later. I'm not trying to be coy or anything. It's just that I want a few more opinions before I bias things with my own.
I intentionally provided no background on the flavor of my campaigns (how often spellbooks are found or how much downtime is available) because I'm trying to ascertain if these rules provide a certain "intrinsic balance". In other words, if these were the rules currently printed in the PHB, would you be calling for them to be fixed in v3.5?
I intentionally provided no background on the flavor of my campaigns (how often spellbooks are found or how much downtime is available) because I'm trying to ascertain if these rules provide a certain "intrinsic balance". In other words, if these were the rules currently printed in the PHB, would you be calling for them to be fixed in v3.5?
