BOEF vs. BORF

[Darrin Drader]

Yes, I've blown off some steam at Nutkinland before. I tried to be humorous about it without bashing these boards in the process, but the conversation Tef linked to on the Valar boards really does show a lack of consideration for many of the people here. However, as long as we're quoting other boards here, in the same thread Tef linked to, Thundershot writes:

Please don't put down a whole community of people just because a few have VERY strong views on the subject matter. This book is a WANT book, not a NEED book. Unfortuantely, some people are so adamant that they do not WANT nor NEED the book, they don't feel that anyone ELSE should have the product either. That's where I generally have problems. That's like saying.... "I hate broccoli! I don't want broccoli in my home! I don't think anyone else in the world should be allowed to have access to broccoli either!"

I completely agree with Thundershot in this. This book will work for some, but not all, and I can respect that. I honestly wasn't impressed with the pictures that I saw in the preview at Gen Con, and I plan on giving this one a miss, but I can say that if there is a market for this kind of book then AV has every right to go out and find it. Somehow I don't think that much of that audience will be found on these boards, but then I could be wrong. There is something to be said for guilty pleasures, and I'm sure that more than a few people here will indulge themselves just because of all the buzz, whether it be welcome or not.

As for the constant and deliberate spamming of a community message board's main page in order to promote any product, I do have a problem with that. Now, by saying this, some might consider my statements somewhat hypocritical. I mean, I do plug Bastion Press products, especially Oathbound products, when it seems appropriate to do so. I also dropped into the discussion on the Book of Exalted Deeds somewhat frequently to try to make sure it was portrayed accurately. I'm not the only one who does this when a new product is released. On the other hand, I don't go out there and continually bump threads, create new threads and pointless polls about those products just to keep discussions about my works on the front page. There is a difference, and I think that this is something that should become a moderator issue if it continues. I'm not saying this out of any dislike for the people involved, or the book itself, but rather because there is a forum established for publishers and their products. Threads started in general discussion simply for the purpose of promoting books should probably end up being moved if the discussion is simply guerilla marketing.

AQ, I would kindly request that if you are truly interested in being part of the wonderful community here, that you do in fact give it a rest. If you choose not to, then I would encourage others reading this to stop responding to threads started by this individual about this book and simply let the two or three posters involved in this have their own private conversation without dragging everybody else into it.

 

[Aaron L]

But if it was the BORF, I'd be so afraid there would be photoshopped pics of Fabio in it I would be even MORE determined not get it.



That, and the fact that it would be, well, BORF.



BORF!

 

[Wycen]

I think I'd rather get bof-ed then borf-ed.

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

AQ, I would kindly request that if you are truly interested in being part of the wonderful community here, that you do in fact give it a rest. If you choose not to, then I would encourage others reading this to stop responding to threads started by this individual about this book and simply let the two or three posters involved in this have their own private conversation without dragging everybody else into it.

I'm with you and Thundershot on the want/need thing.
There are always going to be people who almost seem angry that a book is being published, simply because they aren't interested in it. Deities & Demigods is a perfect example of this. People railed against the publishing of that book as far back as when WoTC's message board could still be viewed through a news reading program. They don't want the book, so they think no one should have it; the very height of selfishness.
Am I going to buy the BOEF? In all likelyhood no. The pictures aren't a draw for me becuase A: I prefer illustrations to photos in RPG books and B: you can see nudity anywhere on the internet if you really want to. The sexually related gaming content will be of no use in my group, period. I could see a slim chance of me picking the book up if it had enough crunchy bits (I hate that term) that could go in anyone's game, but I don't think it will.

As far as ArthurQ is concerned, I think it's highly likely that he's turning away the people who are sitting on the fence about this book with his ranting and raving. If the book gets irrevocably associated in the minds of the public (or at least the community) with fiery eyed zealots and whatnot it will damage the book's reputation and hurt it's marketability.
Honestly, if the people working on the book know what he's doing on this board I'm surprised they have not requested that he stop posting about the BOEF or at least made it clear that his views are not theirs.

 

[clark411]

For me, the title has nothing to do with it. I DM five guys and have no interest in getting too deep into that aspect of the campaign. I've already had a female assassin prostitute delivering contact poisons to nobles through her makeup... and I was very much into developing that plot hook.

But when my player decided to sleep with aforementioned assassin hoping to get information out of her, we all were very comfortable with me saying "Adult Content Occurs, and now on to the issue of you getting information." Anything more, prcs etc. wouldn't come into my campaign.

So.. the title has little to do with my decision, just my (and my players') expected reaction to the content.

 

[Oni]

What's in a name?

Well an interesting title might get me to pick something up in a gaming store, but I rarely buy anthing anymore without reading reviews and pretty much never from small publishers whose previous work I'm not familiar with.

I finally broke down and went and checked out all of the preview material on the Valar website. Frankly based on what I saw there I wouldn't buy this book no matter what title was slapped on the cover for a few reasons.

1. Art in a gamebook is important to me. The art previewed is not at all to my taste.

2. I find the rules to be questionable. The feats make me leary and I shouldn't be left with questions regarding how a spell should work when there are only a few preview spells listed on the site, which I would assume would be the ones most worth showing off in an effort to get people to buy the book.

3. Knowing the sexual preferences and habits of gnomes is so far from useful for me I'm not sure how to manipulate the english language to describe the breadth of it. Plus, a magic item called the Gnomish Kama Sutra is just goofy.

4. The PrC's shown didn't appeal to me at all.

5. The little fiction blurbs weren't enjoyable to me (again not a big deal over all, but considering this is the preview material).

That said there were a couple of idea that seemed interesting, but a few diamonds in the rough isn't enough to sell me a book.

Also, unrelated to content. Hype affects me, it irritates the hell out of me. I think if I see one more BoEF thread I'll puke. Is this rational? Nope. Is this unfair? Possibly. Does it influece my opinion? You betcha. Of course at this juncture that really doesn't matter much, given all the above.

 

[jgbrowning]

If someone can figure out a way to make you need to be 18 or older to buy "Exalted" I'm sure they could figure out a way to make you need to be 18 or older to buy "Romantic."

hunter1828

However silly some restrictions may be, Valar itself requires one to be over 18 to view the previews. It's not a case of the distributor or retailer placing a silly restriction, but one in which the publisher is doing so. And, my guess is that the only reason the publisher is doing so is to prevent any possible lawsuits.

I could be wrong. Probably not, however.

joe b.

 

[jgbrowning]

I get the feeling that some people in this thread have never beheld the wonder that is alt.sex.bestiality.hamsters.duct-tape.


Hong "I just read it for the articles" Ooi

My guess is that a lot of us have already done pretty much everything sexual we've wanted to do in our lives. I'm an adult and there's nothing I've wanted to do that I haven't.

Just because I don't like, nor want, the book, doesn't mean I haven't lived an "alternative" (for a grandma ok word) lifestyle. Done it, got the t-shirt, and still think an RPG book about it is silly.

joe b.

 

[reiella]

However silly some restrictions may be, Valar itself requires one to be over 18 to view the previews. It's not a case of the distributor or retailer placing a silly restriction, but one in which the publisher is doing so. And, my guess is that the only reason the publisher is doing so is to prevent any possible lawsuits.

I could be wrong. Probably not, however.

joe b.

I just have to comment here.
WotC putting a sticker on the book is about the same as the mature warning labels on some adult/mature magazines (not all are plastic wrapped by distributor).

To me, the BoED had the sticker because some of the art violates Wizard's new community standards guidelines (Book of Angel Porn ), and just to fluff up sales like the Hype for the BoVD did, and more so, honestly the latter.

On a different note (not related to jgbrowning's posts . I really haven't seen people saying it shouldn't be published anymore. I see people appluading Wizards for the d20STL change to keep it from having D&D and the d20 logo on it.

[ Edit ,err extra e in 'not' made my post look stupider ]

 

[Harlock]

Heh, thanks for the quotage, TB. I think it speaks volumes and it really backs up what I had considered Valar's marketing plan all along. The tip off was that first patently absurd Press Release and a Live Journal by one of the Photoshop jobbers who wrote, in the middle of that flamefest after the press release, "buzz = royalties".

Valterra even said as much later about the press release that after all of the free advertising that WotC got out of Book of VD from messageboard flamewars it was pretty much a calculated move. Shame on him, shame on Valar and really, shame on Hunter1828 and ArthurQ for perpetuating all of this deliberately in an effort to what... suck up to Valar while badmouthing this community on some other boards and give Valar some free press? That's pretty despicable. So, here's my last post to anything concerning the BoEF and/or Valar and encouragement for others to ignore Valar and the two "Valar Stooges" who've taken it upon themselves to take us all on their contemptable, book-pimping road trip.