Bonus Stacking

[Diirk]

Force of Personality and Dark Blessing are both, by my reading, named bonuses - namely, Charisma bonus.

I think it comes down to interpretation on those two.

Force of personality doesn't even use the word bonus, just says "you add your charisma modifier to will saves". One could infer thats a named bonus of type "charisma", but it isn't spelled out, and arguably isn't implied.

Likewise dark blessing has you "apply your charisma modifier as a bonus to saves". Here the word bonus is used... but without a descriptor. I'd call that an unnamed bonus.

If a bonus is named, usually it will be explicitly stated eg "you gain a luck bonus", "gain a +2 sacred bonus" etc. If it said "apply your charisma bonus as a bonus to saves" I'd be a bit on the fence, because it does mention a bonus name, albeit in a different place in the sentence. However if your current charisma is 21 and you subsitute in "apply 5 as a bonus to saves"... you'd read that straight away as an unnamed bonus. 'Charisma modifier' I think of just as a placeholder for the actual number, not a name for a bonus type.

 

[Nifft]

OK, I keep seeing MAD on the forums, I assume it's to do with ability distribution, can someone enlighten me as to what it actually stands for?

Multiple Ability Dependency.

Paladins = MAD (they need Str, Con, Cha and some Wis).

Barbarians = not MAD. Ironically.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Zathraas]

Nittanytbone – the list you provided demonstrates lots of ways to use alternate ability scores (int mod for damage or str mod for will saves for example) or stacking mods from two different abilities (int mod and str mod to damage for a swashbuckler) but I don’t see where there is any example of the same ability being added twice for the same roll.

Shadeydm’s issue is not with use of alternate abilities for a roll, but the fact that in the case of a hexblade’s Arcane Resistance ability and the feat Force of Personality, the same mod is used twice. It seems to become even more unbalancing issue with Eagle’s Splendor or Cloak of Charisma +6 because these would also essentially give a double effect. The cloak +6 would give a total +6 to Will saves for the hexblade instead of +3.

It doesn’t seem like there are any other examples of abilities and feats that when used together allow one mod to be used twice for the same roll. Nothing allows a character to use double his str mod for kicking in a door, use his double dex mod for reflex saves, etc.

 

[Nifft]

It doesn’t seem like there are any other examples of abilities and feats that when used together allow one mod to be used twice for the same roll. Nothing allows a character to use double his str mod for kicking in a door, use his double dex mod for reflex saves, etc.

It's not quite the same roll, but Strength both makes it more likely that you'll deal melee damage, and also adds directly to melee damage. (Of course, Strength doesn't do much more than that...)

Mental ability scores give you more spells, and give you better spell DCs.

Dexterity + Combat Reflexes + Weapon Finesse gives you more attacks (... of opportunity), and a better chance to hit with each one.

By the time disintegrate rolls around, the Wizard with a high Dexterity is more likely to go first, and to hit.

There are lots of compound effects in D&D.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Zathraas]

Sure, lots of bonuses work together to make combat, etc work better, but a strength bonus to hit and to damage still uses the strength mod a single time on each of the different rolls, and it does not add the the mod twice, for example, a +3 for a 17 strength added for a total of +6 to hit. That is why this instance stands out, the same mod is added more than once on the same roll.

 

[Nifft]

That is why this instance stands out, the same mod is added more than once on the same roll.

Okay, so consider the MiniHB's Martial and his Motivate Charisma minor aura.

Cheers, -- N