Book of Exalted Deeds: A fundamental design philosophy shift at WotC?

[Trainz]

You don't think that's a lot? Weapon Specialization only works on one weapon, and only grants a +2 to damage. A 10th level rogue with TWF (and what rogue doesn't?) gets three attacks per round, that's 15 extra damage per round. Quite a lot, IMO.

Weapon specialization works against ALL targets. And at 12th level, that's +4 against ALL targets.

Sneak attack works only when:

1- A target is denied it's dex, is flat footed or is flanked (AND doesn't have uncanny dodge to counter this)
2- The target is not a ooze, construct, undead, incorporeal, elemental, or some other thing immune to crits.
3- As said somewhere else, the rogue won't hit as often as a warrior.

But hey, if you want to hate BoED, nobody's holding you back. I personally like it.

There's been a lot of well thought points against BoED in this thread, but there's also been lots of under-par points against it. I could pick them one by one, and debate them, but from my experience on these boards, most of the time, once someone's idea is made, no ammount of logic and eloquence will make the person realize his POV is faulty, and this Trainz is tired for now at tilting at windmills. For now.

Blah...

 

[ArcOfCorinth]

Very few of us actually play games like this. I mean who hasn't slain the orc who surrendered to "keep him from doing evil tomorrow" or justified the theft of a powerful weapon because "it can be used for the greater good in my hands".

I beg differ.

I've never had any of my characters do that. None of the players in campaigns I've DMed have done such. Heck, I had one group spare the kobolds that asked for mercy and raised the unhatched children of the ones that didn't. Of course, that gave me problems as the PC suddenly had 50 loyal kobold children to raise to be strictly LG...ouch.

The closest thing I've ever seen in game that came close to the "slay the orc who surrendered to keep him from doing evil tomorrow" was when an elf fighter killed a drow prisoner. The drow had surrendered. He was in manacles and tried to use Escape Artist. At the first squirm, the elf warned him. At the second he decided he'd attempt to subdue him with the flat of his blade. Unfortunately, he rolled a critical miss and I decided that he accidently hit and did lethal damage. The drow was at 1 HP (which the PCs didn't know) and died from the greatsword slap (he rolled two 4's + his strength of 5 (i think) +2 specialization +1 magic). The fighter sought atonement at the local shrine to Corellion.

 

[ArcOfCorinth]

I take that back. I forgot that I once DMed a campaign in which all the PCs were LE (except the barbarian, NE). Despite being evil and using a lot of stuff from the BoVD, they were a pretty honorable bunch. I threw a weak village at them to see if they would pillage it or not. Instead, they healed the sick, convinced them all to build a shrine to Vecna, initiated a new cleric to the ways of the Whispered One, ended slavery in the town and then protected it from a goblin raid.

Their evil...was disturbing.

They weren't against animating slain villagers to use against the goblins. I think the barbarian gathered all the slain's hearts and ate them. The wizard was throwing vile spells around. These guys were very successful at evil. I swear, they were winning the hearts and minds of the country-side and slaying any paladin that complained (never in a dishonorable way though).

Yes, disturbing evil.

However, they still didn't butcher prisoners...much. They did torture a goblin cleric to death and then mutilate her corpse...

I also forgot about a thirteen year old girl that I've DMed for. I worry about her. I've never met such a vicious girl in my life.

 

[AnthonyJ]

My general impression about both the BoED and the BoVD is that they were written by different people, with a different mindset, from the base books. This doesn't even start with the munchkinism or lack thereof of feats and abilities -- I'd say it starts with the fact that the definitions of 'evil' and 'good' in the BoED and BoVD are incompatible with, and generally more lenient than, the PHB definitions (for example, by the PhB definition going into a goblin lair, killing all the goblins, and looting the corpses, if the goblins aren't bothering anyone, is an evil act. By the BoED/BoVD it's not).

Note that this is a much more munchkin-friendly definition.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Folks, all I'm trying to say is that if the mondo-powered feat requires getting smoochies from a nymph, then it seems fairly obvious that if you want the feat, you have to

a) find a nymph, and
b) persuade her to give you smoochies.

That's not a "drawback". It's not an attempt to force roleplaying. It's a quest, one that just happens to be difficult to complete just by killing something until it's dead.

I don't know if you've heard the news yet, but it is possible to be rewarded for achieving a play objective without killing something. There might even be something about it somewhere in the D&D rules.

sheesh,

True enough ... D20 Modern goes into a little bit of detail about non-combat rewards. (They're smaller though ... go figure.)

However, the benefits of making out with a nymph seem way overpowered. I'd be happy to get an RP benefit from that, such as being able to say "I'm dating a nymph, I don't get blinded and yes it is as good as you think it is!"