Book of Exalted Deeds - I don't get it...

[frankthedm]

While at wizard world chicago i talked with an artist who said he had some work in the upcoming BoED.

He described one of his peices being of a Celestial creature crying over an evil female [with the BoVD look] he had just slain.

A book that defines just what is good in the violent and blood stained worlds of D&D is going to raise eyebrows and heated discusions in RL and on messageboards. Even lawful good creatures have to break a few eggs so to speak.

Hopefully the book won't be tainted too much by modern western morality.



Hmm, no Shark yet. Cuts hand and bleeds into the black EN world waters.

 

[S'mon]

Hopefully the book won't be tainted too much by modern western morality.
[/i]

I'm sure it's going to be influenced by Christian (primarily Catholic) morality, which has always been by far the biggest influence on alignment & morality in D&D as far as I can see. Hence the sex=vile=evil equation of BOVD. I guess one could argue that this assumption is a bit weaker under WoTC than under TSR.

 

[The Little Raven]

Ummm... pages 5 through 9 of the BoVD contain the most detailed discussion of evil I've ever seen in a D&D book. However, the book only lightly touches on the moral implications, primarily focusing on D&D's use of evil as a foil to the PCs, with all kinds of crunchy powers to make your players fear your villains.

EDIT: And where does it ever imply that sex is evil? It implies the necrophilia, bestiality and rape are evil... but... well... they are. It never says anything about sex between two consenting people being evil.

 

[Hand of Vecna]

*points up at Mourn* Yeah, what he said! *secretly curses Mourn for posting a split-second before he did*

Did no one see any of the discussions slavery in the BOVD? It wasn't all deviant sex & drug use.

 

[S'mon]

EDIT: And where does it ever imply that sex is evil? It implies the necrophilia, bestiality and rape are evil... but... well... they are. It never says anything about sex between two consenting people being evil.

OK, I haven't read the book, I'm going by Hong's Nipple Clamps of Exquisite Pain...
Also the Succubus, embodiment of lust, is an archetypal D&D demon (had one in my game yesterday). The dangers of sex is a strong theme in Judaeo-Christian morality and a minor theme in D&D. If the BOED has good-aligned tantric sex mages or somesuch I'll be surprised.

 

[WizarDru]

The BoVD had very little sexual-themed material in it, let alone any such message that sex == evil. It did have non-consensual sex == evil, but I'd agree that rape IS evil. Slavery is discussed, in brief, as is necrophilia and a few other sexual topics, including a father/daughter incestous arch-devil combo.

For the most part, however, the only real sexual material in the BovD is the presence of boobies in the artwork. The first ten pages, as mentioned, has a pretty thorough discussion of evil in D&D, how it can work and not work, and how different games will view it differently.

In toto, the BoVD is extremely tame in many ways. I expect the BoED being labelled mature is, as Morrus points out, due to the sensitive nature of the content. A book where Angels and holy beings are presented as 'monsters' and spell-casters might be offensive to some. A discussion of morality, relative or otherwise, may likewise be upsetting to some.

WotC is just in CYA-mode.

 

[The Little Raven]

OK, I haven't read the book, I'm going by Hong's Nipple Clamps of Exquisite Pain...
Also the Succubus, embodiment of lust, is an archetypal D&D demon (had one in my game yesterday). The dangers of sex is a strong theme in Judaeo-Christian morality and a minor theme in D&D. If the BOED has good-aligned tantric sex mages or somesuch I'll be surprised.

Heh. Well, if you're interested in that sort of thing, check out www.valarproject.com and their upcoming Book of Erotic Fantasy.

The Book of Exalted Deeds will be mature in that it will handle the philosophy of what is good and what is not. Murder is evil, right? What about if it's murder to save millions of lives? Killing a group of evil characters is good, but is killing their evil children (or even leaving them to die by exposure)? If an evil creature never performs an evil act but is evil by thought and philosophy, and you slay it, is it murder? After all, it never performed an evil act.

When does fanatical devotion to a belief cause you to resort to whatever methods necessary to further it?

These are mature things that most young gamers wouldn't really take the time to think about. And by young gamers, I mean under the age of 18.

EDIT: Another example of the "evil" nature of good and vice versa... in one of my campaigns, I had two opposing societies. One was lawful good and the other was chaotic evil. My players were surprised and bewildered when they discovered that they were free to come and go as they pleased in the chaotic evil society, not even being harassed by the guards. The lawful good society, however, was much stricter, and even committed forced abortions on citizens that did not buy a birth license. Forced abortions are murderous and evil, but the land was already overpopulated and the food supply was on a downward spiral towards total famine.

 

[smetzger]

I'm sure it's going to be influenced by Christian (primarily Catholic) morality, which has always been by far the biggest influence on alignment & morality in D&D as far as I can see. Hence the sex=vile=evil equation of BOVD. I guess one could argue that this assumption is a bit weaker under WoTC than under TSR.

Especially since James Wyatt wrote it.

 

[Henry]

Heh. Well, if you're interested in that sort of thing, check out www.valarproject.com and their upcoming Book of Erotic Fantasy.

Owning the 32-page preview, I'll only say: Seconded.

 

[The Little Raven]

Owning the 32-page preview, I'll only say: Seconded.

Can you tell me a little about it? I'm interested, but I doubt my group will want to have anything to do with it, so buying it might not be in the foreseeable future.

How does it read? Like a clinical textbook? A typical fantasy novel's minimal description of sex? A steamy romance novel?