Book of Hell: Any thoughts?

[Psion]

I've read it, but I do not own it. (I don't feel it's worth the cover price.) It fails because the writing and design are sub-standard, in my opinion,

If there are authentic design problems, surely you can relate to me some of the failings.

and because it suffers from the usual Mongoose production philosophy.

If there is one thing that I have learned about Mongoose, it is that their "usual production philosophy" does not produce products that are either consistently good or bad for my purposes. I have been disappointed in Book of Strongholds and Dynasties but pleased as punch with Book of the Planes.

The creature-oriented material doesn't hold a candle to that presented in the Book of Fiends,

Again, this is not an evaluation that tell me anything other than it failed to meet some criterion that you have. Why doesn't it hold a candle to what's in the book of fiends? How does it fall short?

and moreover, it's even more of a let down as "a location book" because it doesn't provide users -- or at least this user -- with what they'd need to run a good Hell game solely with the product.

Well, I never run my game solely with one product, but it leaves me wondering just what it is lacking?

 

[Psion]

I have just twigged - you are Colin A. Suleiman, aren't you?

For the benefit of those who don't know, this guy has a massive problem with Mongoose. He is apt to post snide comments on industry lists and send abusive replies to emails. The thing is, we have no idea _why_ ?

I chip on the shoulder, eh? Like Thanee and psionics?

 

[Mouseferatu]

Okay, let's slow down for a minute. In fact, let's come to a screeching halt entirely.

First, I've known C.A., personally and professionally, for over three years. And I can assure that if he gives an opinion on a product, it's his honest opinion of the product, any conflict with the company aside. Trying to dismiss his opinions on this book because he may or may not have a conflict with Mongoose is, while perhaps understandable if you don't know him, completely flawed thinking.

Second... You know how, in courtrooms (or at least courtrooms on television), something that's considered inadmissable can be brought in despite that fact, if it directly contradicts a claim made by a defendant on the stand? Well, I'd never have brought any of the following up, Matt, if you hadn't come on here and claimed to have "no idea" why C.A. has a beef with you or your company.

Could it be because you've gone on record in other communities claiming that writers are an unimportant part of the process, and that "there's always more" where we come from?

Could it be because C.A. believes (as do many others) that your massive release schedule is a major contributor to the current poor state of the D20 market--an opinion he's expressed to you before, so it shouldn't come as a surprise?

Could it be because when C.A. has expressed negative opinions of some of your products before in public forums--opinions he's backed up with valid criticism--he's been accused of bias there, too?

I understand your desire to defend one of your books, Matt, but please don't come on here pretending ignorance and trying to convince others that C.A.'s opinions are the product of some unwarranted and inexplicable grudge. He's never made any bones about exactly what problems he has with you, and he's never publically "slated" one of your products based on those problems.

Why is it so hard to accept that someone might dislike your company based on actions you and your company have taken? Why assume it must be personal? Assuming that it's a personal chip, rather than actual professional concerns--and even worse, going around on public forums and attempting to invalidate his concerns by claiming that there must be some unknown personal concern behind it--is a pretty cheap tactic.

 

[tassander]

What do you know about book of hell? Do you own it? Why does it fail?

I don't know what's important too you. Telling me that the book won't fulfil my needs, not knowing what I find useful and what I don't, is meaningless. Tell me what you know and let ME decide whether it's pertinent.

well, I'm willing to help you out. Just tell me, what it is YOU expect from the Book of Hell. Tell me what would make it a worthwhile purchase, and I tell you whether it's there, or not. Cause, otherwise, what you're asking for is a full blown review. While I agree that a review would certainly be helpful, the fact that none of us has written one means that we're probably not willing to do so, and will not do that in a post, either. (after all, we just could've submitted a review to the database, then)

You want locations, for example? You'd be disappointed, as there are only a few pages with standard stuff (trees in hell look evil, frex).

 

[Psion]

Why is it so hard to accept that someone might dislike your company based on actions you and your company have taken? Why assume it must be personal?

Ari,

I'm not Matt, but I'm not assuming anything. That said, "Toll Carom" does appear to me, to be holding a grudge. I have repeatedly asked him in this thread what his specific beefs are with this book, and he comes back with generalizations which I cannot feel I can apply, because while there are many Mongoose books I feel fail to deliver what I consider to be a usable product, there are others that I feel are excellent and I actively use in my game. If I was making any blanket assumptions, I would not have started this thread in the first place.


At any rate, I picked the book up. It's not up to the level of Book of Dragons or Book of the Planes, and I certainly wouldn't use it in the default cosmology, but it does have some bits I am likely to use.

 

[JoeGKushner]

You keep mentioning the Book of the Planes amigo. I think I may have to go pick that one up now.

As far as Mongoose, I think that they have some fantastic products. Conan and the whole lien being the top of that list. Some of their Quintessential books are much better than others. It's like multiple game companies working under one brand name.'

Some of their books have been pretty horrible too. I haven't checked in a while, but I'm still waiting on NPC's in 3.5 version for their drow city, an updated Ultimate Monsters Book, and a few others that just said, "Uh, did we send the draft copy to the printer? Yeah? Oh well, run with it."

And that's why the best reason for fans to find out, is for Mongoose to start sending the staff reviewer's copies of their books.