Book of Nine Swords -- okay?

[pawsplay]

For those of us who are old and jaded, we need the new h0tness to make playing the sword swinger not a simple act of calculating probabilities.

-Nate

You are making a lot of assumptions about my age and experience.

 

[Brian Gibbons]

There does seem to be a shift towards more of a resources per encounter as opposed to per day in some of WotC's latest supplements.

Another way of stating this is that WOTC's design philosophy is moving away from a "balanced on average" style of design.

3e tried (with varying degrees of success) to get away from the idea that if a class or race is overpowered at low level and underpowered at high level (or vice versa), that you can consider everything just averaging out over time and call the class or race balanced. The goal (again, with varying degrees of success) seems to be to make things balanced on a level-by-level by basis.

The spellcaster-vs-melee dichotomy, however, has always been balanced on a "well, over the course of the day, the classes are balanced on average" basis, rather than encounter-by-encounter. The idea that a wizard being able to bring out the big guns and blow away a single encounter at the expense of being sub-par the rest of the game is balanced with a fighter being consistently average all day long unfortunately makes adventure design an integral part of game balance--a campaign where seven fights a day are common will lead to a radically different result than one where a single fight a day is the norm.

Personally, I see the Binder (from Tome of Magic) as a harbinger of, if not what spellcasters in 4e will be, at least what some designers are arguing for--spellcasters who can do meaningful things every round and more impressive things on a 1 per X rounds basis.

Moving melee types to the same sort of system seems like a good thing to me, though it has to be done consistently rather than an ad hoc add-on.

 

[Seeten]

Speaking of mechanics, and balance, I want you guys to weigh in on a new character of mine.

I'm going to be starting in a new campaign soon, its virtually entirely underwater, and I am playing a Sahuagin. I think at first level, I am going Ranger, but I considered Warblade. I think I'll go Warblade later, maybe next level, instead. Here is my issue.

My attack sequence is Talon/Talon/Bite/Rake/Rake.

Warblade gives Punishing Stance, which adds 1d6 to each attack. I am sure this is balanced aroudn the idea that it adds to 1 attack at levels 1-5, 2 at 6-10, etc, with the possible exception of TWF.

No one could have expected it to add 1d6 to 5 different attacks at level 1(ECL 3) and I felt very uncomfortable going Warblade as a result.

Let me know, from a DM perspective, what you'd consider fair? I am thinking adding 1d6 for stance to 1 attack up to level 5, 2 up to 10, 3 to 15 and 4 to 20, but whats everyone feel is fair?

 

[Nifft]

Personally, I see the Binder (from Tome of Magic) as a harbinger of, if not what spellcasters in 4e will be, at least what some designers are arguing for--spellcasters who can do meaningful things every round and more impressive things on a 1 per X rounds basis.

Indeed. And the Warlock was a move in the same direction, even before that.

Note that even Binders have things they can do a limited number of times each day, like Feats (like Empower Supernatural Ability), and even some of the granted Vestigial abilities (like Tenebrious granting flicker a limited number of times each day).

Moving melee types to the same sort of system seems like a good thing to me, though it has to be done consistently rather than an ad hoc add-on.

Someone has to beta-test this stuff.

Better ad hoc than never, and better a reasonably designed add-on now than a merely reasonably designed whole system later.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Nail]

Keep in mind you only get the rake attack after a round of grappling, and only 2 rake attacks while swiming and grappling.

So normally you're getting 2 talons and secondary bite.

Still, that's not bad. Is this an underwater campaign?

 

[Seeten]

Wait, it doesnt mention grappling in the description, it simply says "When Swimming, you can take 2 rake attacks" and also mentions you get rakes when you are affected by Blood Frenzy, again, no mention of grappling.

Yes, it will be probably entirely underwater, with possible short stops on ship decks, and maybe the occasional trip to the shore.

EDIT:
Ok, just read the rake description. Good to know =)

So normally talon/talon/bite. Thats 1d4+5/1d4+5/1d4+2, and with Punishing Stance, thats 1d4+5+1d6/1d4+5+1d6/1d4+2+1d6 which suddenly seems outrageous at level 1(ecl 3)

 

[pawsplay]

No one could have expected it to add 1d6 to 5 different attacks at level 1(ECL 3) and I felt very uncomfortable going Warblade as a result.

A 3rd level cleric can bestow a curse with a touch of the hand, causing a -4 ability penalty. A 3rd level rogue can get +2d6 sneak attack, straight up, probably nearly every round or every other round.

Human fighter 3, with Powerful Charge, Greater Powerful charge, greatsword... 2d6 + (Str x 1 1/2) +2d6.

Not really that out of line for ECL 3.

 

[The Souljourner]

You are making a lot of assumptions about my age and experience.

I am? I thought I was only making an inference about my own age and experience (and really.... more about my mindset).

I totally didn't mean it as a suggestion that you're young and inexperienced... just talking about my own jadefulness (it's a word... I swear!).

I actually totally agree that a lack of imagination can make some types of characters boring. And to some extent, that group of people who lack imagination includes me. I don't get as jazzed about playing a new character unless he has some kind of new ability I haven't tried before. I love roleplaying and I'm fine with hours without die rolls... but eventually, I just want to hit something in the face, and when I do, I don't want it to be the same old thing I've done 1000 times before.

-Nate

 

[Seeten]

Well, I guess next level I'll pick up Warblade and be Ranger 1/Warblade 1. Seems too good to be true, but I suppose I do suffer from the smallness of the die in that 1d4 damage is pretty weak.

Also, Tiger Claw uses jump as its prime attribute. While swimming, should Tiger Claw use Swim, instead? Makes sense to me...and is totally OP for me.

 

[KarinsDad]

The fact that Tolkien's characters camp has very little to do with healing magic!

Tolkien's characters camp because .....<wait fer it!>.....it's the end of the day!

DND characters camp because .....<wait fer it!>.....it's the end of 4 encounters!

If you look at each day in Tolkien, the number of encounters is:

0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, all day battle, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, all day battle, 0, 0, 0

It really is apples and oranges. From a combat perspective, typically two totally different genres.