Book of NPCs

[CapnZapp]

A question regarding your rules for NPC ability scores. I noticed you aren't following the standard value-to-bonus numbers. For example, a level 4 Avenging Paladin Dwarf is listed as having Str 17 (+5).

Is this your shorthand for "This NPC has a +5 to all Strength-based skill checks"?

Or did you add the NPC level bonus to ability score bonuses as well? This isn't what the DMG says, it says "Then adjust the scores to account for the NPC’s level, just as you would for a player character." which means that in this particular case, the NPC does play by the (PCs') rules.

No big deal, just slightly confusing, 'ts all.

 

[77IM]

For example, a level 4 Avenging Paladin Dwarf is listed as having Str 17 (+5).

Is this your shorthand for "This NPC has a +5 to all Strength-based skill checks"?

That's exactly how the Monster Manual does it. It lists the bonus for ability checks, which is needed more often than the ability modifier itself.

-- 77IM

 

[Paul Strack]

That's exactly how the Monster Manual does it. It lists the bonus for ability checks, which is needed more often than the ability modifier itself.

That's correct. I am following the Monster Manual conventions.

 

[kouk]

Firstly, I can appreciate the effort this must have taken to get this far. I can see it being useful for a lot of people.

However, the concern I have is that with the house rules added to them, you seem to have partially applied the NPC templates to the base races, but you still treat them as "normal" monsters. I don't think you can do that fairly.

A normal monster would not have a "Daily" power or the extra class features and trained skills, so these NPCs are sort of "half-HP" elites, which I imagine would skew them a noticeable bit in practice. That essentially makes them all "glass cannons" who have great offensive ability but HP as low as standard mooks.

If they have no significantly boosted defenses, no extra HP, and no saving throw bonus or action point, they are basically all unnecessarily complex and damaging monsters who have enough time to use their Daily and maybe their Encounter before they die without giving much sense of their class. On the other hand, they might be able to last an incredibly long time and cause much more trouble for the party than a normal monster of the same level and role, based on power selection.

By comparing a level 5 Dwarf Hammerer from page 97 of the Monster Manual with the level 5 Dwarf Guardian Fighter, you can see the Fighter has a better at-will ability (Tide of Iron vs. a Basic attack), a Daily power which causes ongoing damage and reduces defenses, and Combat Challenge and Get Over Here and also a Second Wind which makes it a much stronger Soldier overall.

By comparing a level 2 Human Bandit from page 162 of the Monster Manual with a level 2 Human Brawny Rogue, you can see the NPC version has better defenses, First Strike, higher Sneak Attack damage, more accurate and potentially damaging at-wills, a Daily power which seriously hinders the target, and the ability to Tumble and a Second Wind. And yet it is given the same XP value as the Bandit.

I don't think you can really have classed NPCs which aren't full Elites, with all that it entails, as a matter of game balance. If you apply a template as you suggest in the Index to make them Elite, all you have done is given them normal Elite hit points and added even more abilities on top of what they already can do, so it's a more powerful Elite as well.

I think leaving them as normal Elites using the normal template rules from the DMG may make for a more practical and useful book.

 

[Paul Strack]

However, the concern I have is that with the house rules added to them, you seem to have partially applied the NPC templates to the base races, but you still treat them as "normal" monsters. I don't think you can do that fairly.

The NPCs in the book are not using the "Class Template" rules on DMG 182. They are using the "Creating NPCs" rules on DMG 186-188. Some of my house rules actually make the NPCs are bit weaker, because I reduce the NPC Level Bonus from the table on DMG 188.

So, the NPCs in the book are "legal", according to the rules. I do agree, however, that for levels 1-10, they are definitely stronger than most equal-level monsters.

Part of the reason I put together the Book of NPCs is to compare them to normal monsters and see how they differ. Also, normal monsters just are not challenging my party enough. Rather than increasing the level of the encounters my PCs face, I decided to experiment with using NPCs.

NPCs have the virtual of dying as fast as normal monsters, so the combats last about the same amount of time. However, they dish out more damage and have more powers, making them a bigger challenge.

I haven't used them in play yet, however, so I can't say for sure how well they work in practice.

 

[Blizzardb]

Thanks for the Christmas present!

This is what I always wanted, but was too lazy to do myself. I encourage you to keep working on the project!

 

[kouk]

The NPCs in the book are not using the "Class Template" rules on DMG 182. They are using the "Creating NPCs" rules on DMG 186-188. Some of my house rules actually make the NPCs are bit weaker, because I reduce the NPC Level Bonus from the table on DMG 188.

Well what do you know? I completely forgot about those rules existing (never touched them). My mistake.

I think the issues about the glass cannons are sort of the same though, but I would have to take that up with Mr. Wyatt at this point.

Good work then.

 

[Paul Strack]

I think the issues about the glass cannons are sort of the same though, but I would have to take that up with Mr. Wyatt at this point.

I agree with you on the glass cannon effect, except that I think it can be desirable at times. For example, adding a 4th level Orc Infernal Pact Warlock to a group of orc raiders might make a nice mini-boss, especially if your big bad for an adventure is an Elite Warlock class template

I think the best way to fix it would be to add a bit to the XP value of NPCs to balance them against normal monsters. My gut intuition is that NPCs should be worth an extra 33% XP (3 NPCs = 4 normal monsters), but I haven't looked into it thoroughly yet. I plan on doing some more serious analysis once I finishing statting out NPCs to 30th level.

 

[Nail]

This resource is Mucho Awesome-o! Thanks!

 

[ricardo440]

very cool.