Book of Vile Darkness is really unnecessary...

[Nathanael]

First of all, to call me a troll is to marginalize my opinion and say that no one in their right mind would think that. I believe what I've written, or I wouldn't bother.

Secondly, no I haven't seen the book. Everyone keeps reminding me of this. But, despite what everyone says that Monte says, the advert for the BoVD says that it contains what I'm concerned about. I agree with one poster that this is simply a way to stir up controversy to boost D&D sales to reflect Hasbro standards. Either way, the stated content concerns me.

Thirdly, as was also pointed out, you don't need a book to give you rules for this sort of thing. Seriously, do you need to know the dice of damage that a rape does to its victim? If you want that content in your game, than I'm pretty sure you can figure out how it works. I see the book as simply a method for Hasbro (a childrens toy manufacturer of all things) to stimulate the market in the most lavascious way possible. Get the porn vote from those who want porn but want it in a format that they can say is 'frank and mature' and 'about realism' and not just plain old fashioned porn. You know, the White Wolf crowd.

 

[Tsyr]

First of all, to call me a troll is to marginalize my opinion and say that no one in their right mind would think that. I believe what I've written, or I wouldn't bother.

I too thought calling you a troll was uncalled for.

Secondly, no I haven't seen the book. Everyone keeps reminding me of this. But, despite what everyone says that Monte says, the advert for the BoVD says that it contains what I'm concerned about.

Advertising slogans and the like have a bad track record for accuracy. Monte has a reputation as a good game designer, and more than that, from everything I've seen of his posts and what he has wrote elsewhere, a good human being. I'll trust what Monte says before I trust the WotC add slogan. And I think it's really a bit pointless to complain about something that the books AUTHOR says he isn't writing, just because some admonkey is the WotC basement got a little keyboard happy writing an advertisement.

Now, if you are saying that the advertisement ITSELF is bad, for saying that, then I agree. Even if the book turned out to be about fluffy bunnies and rainbows, there are people who would hold up what the add says as fact. But starting the thread with a messaying saying the book is unnecessary doesn't seem to be connected with the ad.

Thirdly, as was also pointed out, you don't need a book to give you rules for this sort of thing. Seriously, do you need to know the dice of damage that a rape does to its victim?

Again, you are complaining about something that books own AUTHOR has said won't be in the book. Doesn't that strike you as a little strange? I mean, it's like if I made a post on the Ford message boards shouting about how Ford doesn't care about my saftey because they were including a remote-controled self-destruct device in all their pickup trucks. Which they aren't doing, I'm fairly certain.

On the other hand, the rules that the book IS supposed to have (How to give your cult priests demonic powers, etc) DO seem useful.

... You know, the White Wolf crowd.

Can you PLEASE avoid digs like that? I'm a long time white-wolf player, and I know many other people on this board play White Wolf too (I also know we have a fair amount of people who hate it, but...). White Wolf, BY AND LARGE, is perfectly fine. I admit there are a few that I think shouldn't have seen the light of day, but don't confuse these few books with the attitudes of white-wolf players. Most of US stay far away from those books too.

 

[Wolfspider]

Yeah, you complain about your opinion being marginalized and then make a blanket statement about White Wolf players. Bad form. Very bad form.

 

[Umbran]

Wolfspider has a point there. Do unto others, and all that...

Have you never read the blurb on the back of a novel, and found it bore little resemblance to the actual content of the book? Ad copy is often enough written by folks who have not even seen the product. Take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

First of all, to call me a troll is to marginalize my opinion and say that no one in their right mind would think that. I believe what I've written, or I wouldn't bother.

It has nothing to do with whether or not you are in your right mind (or anyone else is in theirs). Calling your post a troll is to marginalize your opinion because

1. Your "facts" are wrong. According to the author, there is nothing in the book about prostitution, and rape has never been mentioned by the author as a topic included in the book. You conveniently just dismiss anyone's claim of what the author said, though you can easily find his statement on his own message boards .
2. You're debating the merits of a book that isn't out yet. Since it isn't out yet, you can't possibly know what the book will be like.
   [/list=1]
   
   In your original post, you claim the book will deal with rape, and even give an example of "the dice of damage that a rape does to its victim"--is this in the book? Did you see it? You say no. If you are debating an issue, please stick to facts. Not hypotheticals and made-up examples.
   
   You mention the advert. Perhaps the adverts in Euopre aren't the same as the ads in the U.S. Marketing Departments often have no clue what they are selling, and will do (almost) anything to pump up the sales. Is rape mentioned in the ad you saw? Where is this ad? I can't find it on the internet anywhere. The WotC web site is a PAIN to navigate, so maybe it's there somewhere. Can anyone find it? I can't.
   
   Don't be so concerned with advertising. It's deceptive. Usually, intentionally.
   
   Wait until the book comes out. If it's as bad as you fear, start a boycott (or whatever). In the meantime, we (as a community) can't debate something we can't read/examine. So, right now, we can debate the title. Given the complete lack of media fanfare over titles such as (emphasis added)
   • Evil (AEG)
   • Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil (WotC)
   • Lords of Darkness
   I think you're making a mountain out of ....well, nothing.
   
   

   I see the book as simply a method for Hasbro (a childrens toy manufacturer of all things) to stimulate the market in the most lavascious way possible. Get the porn vote from those who want porn but want it in a format that they can say is 'frank and mature' and 'about realism' and not just plain old fashioned porn.

   If you are correct on this point, I think this is a WotC issue, not a Hasbro issue. Just my gut feeling, not a fact.

 

[Katerek]

Well it is good to see that so many of the religous right and left still play DnD.

I am not Christian, and I play DnD. When my mom asked me years ago if it was evil I said no, she said okay, end of story.

Is the BoVD necessary? Sure.

It is entertainment. In the world of entertainment, in order to capitalize the most, you must hit all target audiences. If there wasn't a demand for R rated movies they wouldn't be made. Do you know why gansta rap is still being produced? Because people still buy it. Plain and simple.

People whine on and on about the evils of various print media, and quite frankly I get tired of it. The media and other idjits out there are always looking for something to blame for what is wrong with soceity, be it DnD, Porn, or cuss words. Well the only thing wrong with soceity is the people in it.

Turn the tuner, change the channel, don't buy the book if you don't like it.

Personally, I hope this is the book where they finally teach us the real spells. I have been playing for over twenty years, I want to know when the pay off is!

 

[Darkness]

...

Personally, I hope this is the book where they finally teach us the real spells. I have been playing for over twenty years, I want to know when the pay off is!

Curses - I knew I shoulda brought my +6 acidic and flaming burst troll bane greatsword!

Oh, well - should I indeed need it, I can always get it later.

 

[Draxus the Tainted]

I think if things like this go in real life, then why wouldn't they go on in a fantasy setting...Wizards of the Coast just put in a book using the D&D rules for it to be better used in a campaign instead of leaving it all to the DM to do. IMO it contains the same reality the New Cast contains...so does that make news anchors the antichrist?

Since the "good" guys have to much to work off of in D&D, I say it's about time the "bad" guys got a lil something!!!

 

[Hand of Vecna]

For the record, I agree with Nathanael fully, even though I'm a Pseudo-Neo-Pagan, not a Lutheran.