Book of Vile Darkness

[JeffB]

I’ll admit my “examples” were a bit tongue-in cheek…no offense was intended.

I reckon it’s just different schools of thought. I think the why’s and “what-gained’s” are things that are easily enough decided through story, or if necessary , a minor stat adjustment on the fly. If I was running a game with this sort of villain, I would not be really concerned for what new feat or power, or whatnot he got with every sacrifice. If I thought that the sacrifcer needed an in-game boost, I’d simply give him a few more HPs (for the vitality he’s gained through sacrifice), or perhaps the effects of a bless spell for a longer period of time (from his diety/devil, etc being pleased). It’s simple and quick, I personally just don’t see why anyone would want a whole book with charts, tables, systems, etc to detail things that are EASILY made up on the fly. I won’t begrudge anyone who does want it of course, I just don’t understand the need for detailed rules systems about it.

Now regarding the Demon Princes, etc..again different schools of thought…although as kid my brother ran games where my high level paladin took on Orcus and such (I killed him too!), as I’ve grown older I’ve come to see these entities as foes, but not necessarily combatants for the PC’s. I liken them to any of the evil Gods in my games… a re-occurring villain that you won’t ever get rid of, but can thwart and cause them to hide under a rock for awhile. The lackeys are the combatants the PC’s face; hence my comments on providing game material regarding their priest-hood and organization. Again I don’t begrudge anyone their style of play, I just didn’t realize that this sort of thing was “common” , judging by the number of people who want the stats.

And I’ll also agree with the comments regarding the D&DG (and F&P for that matter) by another poster. I don’t see ever needing stats for these folks, and since so much of these two books WAS stats and less about the churches, etc. I passed on D&DG , and I sold F&P..it seemed just to be the Monster Manual of gods to me. Things to kill.

IMO of course

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Nice.

Were you one of those who said that? That's like people telling me I was sick because I read a lot of Steven King and other horror authors. Idiots. To say that writing of the macabre is "unhealthy" reveals one as a moron.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Flexor, how old were you when you started playing D&D? I was 12; my parents had to buy me the books. If it starts to scare away soccer moms with fears of satanism and dark rituals, guess what? The hobby will lose gamers, period. Or else the people who take it up will become even more distanced from 'mainstream' society.

Around the same age. My parents had a little more faith in me than most of the "soccer moms" I guess. But I'm being honest when I say I don't care what people like "soccer moms" in thier SUV's think of gaming or my hobbies. I gave up striving for "acceptance" a long time ago. I guess I'm distanced from it as everyone I game with is over 30.

 

[Wolfspider]

Flexor, how old were you when you started playing D&D? I was 12; my parents had to buy me the books. If it starts to scare away soccer moms with fears of satanism and dark rituals, guess what? The hobby will lose gamers, period. Or else the people who take it up will become even more distanced from 'mainstream' society.

I was about ten when I started gaming. As I recall, the Monster Manual (at least) had quite a bit of nudity in it. The other books had violent imagery as well. My mother bought it for me without even flipping through it. Even if she had, she probably wouldn't have said anything about it.

I doubt that the BoVD will exalt in these kind of images (nudity, violence) to a degree previously unseen.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Actually, IIRC Monte has said that they don't spend a whole lot of time on that topic.

I thought he said that about playing evil characters. Unless that is what you thought I meant, sorry about that if so. I meant dm tips on running evil and the mechanics of different aspects of mwuhahah evil.

FD

 

[Dr Midnight]

Were you one of those who said that? That's like people telling me I was sick because I read a lot of Steven King and other horror authors. Idiots. To say that writing of the macabre is "unhealthy" reveals one as a moron.

Whether or not you believe that, it's just not a sweet happy nice thing to blanket people on ENworld with terms like idiotic and moron.

My thing, to clarify, is not that Monte has an UNHEALTHY fascination with this material. I say I'm a little tired of Monte's fascination with this material. I don't really care about the porn angle, although Wolfen Priest is absolutely right: the game industry, particularly WotC, doesn't need this kind of attention-getter. It may sell books, but are we taking a risk of flaring up the Jack Chicks of the world?

I'm being honest when I say I don't care what people like "soccer moms" in thier SUV's think of gaming or my hobbies. I gave up striving for "acceptance" a long time ago.

the classic gamer approach.
Do you "care" what these "soccer moms" can do to the "industry"?

 

[JeffB]

Cmon folks..let's keep this civil....

Another serious question...does anyone forsee the local bookstores who carry WOTC product shrinkwrapping the item? I know in mine, all the D&D stuff is mixed up with all the comic books...errr..excuse me..graphic novels...

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

So be it. I have long ago stopped caring what others think of music I listen to, books I read, movies I watch, and games I play. I don't care. I've heard every comment and every slander. People will think what they want to, I couldn't care less. If you are constantly thinking, "what will the soccer moms of the world think!" then I suggest you reexamine things. I don't strive for acceptance, they day I do that I may as well start listening to pop music and watching network TV. A scary thought.

 

[Ristamar]

Yes, actually. If WotC is publishing it, you can be sure it's going to be displayed at your nearest local Barnes & Noble bookstore, (or Waldenbooks or whatever). If it just said "d20" on the cover, most mom's wouldn't understand what it was for.

And for those who simply don't give a rat's you-know-what about the next generation of players, do you ever think about what will happen to our little hobby if people stop playing it? I for one don't want to see it taken over by CRPG's. Flexor, how old were you when you started playing D&D? I was 12; my parents had to buy me the books. If it starts to scare away soccer moms with fears of satanism and dark rituals, guess what? The hobby will lose gamers, period. Or else the people who take it up will become even more distanced from 'mainstream' society.

I think you're being a bit too reactionary. Realistically, if all the Vampire, Werewolf, Ravenloft, and other 'evil' books sitting at Borders and Barnes & Noble haven't alarmed the conservative parent(s) yet, I doubt the BoVD will either.

Secondly, I have no doubt the book will be tasteful considering it is Monte and WotC that are releasing this work.

I agree that the game needs to maintain a positive image, but that doesn't mean the industry needs to walk on egg shells. If a publisher releases tasteful material dealing with evil beings and their doings, yet parents pull their child out of the hobby due to a book cover/title they see at the local bookstore, then that is not the fault of the hobby. That is simply the result of ignorance and poor parenting and/or extremist beliefs.

If most concerned parents had a smidgen of factual knowledge relating to RPG's, they'd likely be thrilled that their child is embracing an arguably enriching hobby. Instead of worrying about 'little Billy' playing D&D, parents should be more concerned with what music he listens to, what movies he watches, where he's hanging out after school, etc. Chances are he's not going to hurt himself or anyone by using his imagination, sitting at the table with some friends, pretending to thwart the plans of evil wizard who plans to sacrifice the kidnapped maiden. Hell, they might even learn something while they're at it... imagine that.

 

[Sammael99]

Sick? Probably not. Twisted? Hell yes. How else do you explain Lovecraft?

Well, old Howard Philips was likely sick as well as twisted, but not necessarily in the way people think (rather the opposite, actually...)