Books and Knowledge

[schporto]

So I had an idea for a 'new' item partly stolen from the latest Dragon. Not really magical. Basically the mechanic would work that you buy a book, read it for a determined amount of time, then make an intelligence check. You then get some knowledge ranks. Off hand I was thinking that the numbers would work out to be 50gp, 1 week, and a DC 15 check to get you 1 rank in knowledge (whatever). Perhaps setting a limit on the ranks (or maybe circumstance bonus?) equal to your total intelligence score. Then increase the gold by 50, time by 1 week, DC by 1 for each additional rank. What do folks think of this?

-cpd

 

[Kisanji Arael]

Makes sense.

*yoink*

 

[Felnar]

makes sense... but it would really throw off character balance
just like if you could say, oh my character spends the week lifting weights all day, so i get +1 strength

it might work if you priced it high enough to actually cut into a characters wealth
perhaps price it as an unslotted skill bonus item

 

[schporto]

I don't see ranks in knowledge (X) to be nearly as important as strength. But what if there was a limit on the ranks possible to obtain in this method (maybe 5-10?). And in order to get ranks you have to buy a book of that much and spend that much time uninterrupted. So you would have to buy ...
Book1 - Grants 1 rank in Knowledge X for 50 gp and 1 week of time - pass a Int check DC 16.
before you could buy...
Book 2 - Grants 2 ranks in Knowledge X for 100 gp and 2 weeks of time - pass an Int check of DC 17.
After taking both of these books you'd only have 2 total ranks gained in this method (not 3). The effects of each book overlap, not stack.
Do folks think that would make them a little more balanced?
-cpd

 

[Crothian]

makes sense... but it would really throw off character balance
just like if you could say, oh my character spends the week lifting weights all day, so i get +1 strength

well strength isn't a skill, but using th books one could learn to jump better or any other skill and gain a rank. As long as all characters do it balance is saved.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Do folks think that would make them a little more balanced?

Definetely.

Yoink.

 

[Felnar]

i wasnt comparing knowledge to strength
i gave a second example of a situation that makes sense but would effect balance

after your changes, i still think the price is too low
and giving out more skill points hurts rogues

what if reading the books let you make untrained skill checks against DCs higher than 10?

 

[Panask]

One problem is that the book, not being magical, isn't used up when you're done. The first character might have to pay 50 or 100 gp for it, but then he could pass it around to all his friends.

This is difficult to balance. Maybe there should be some penalty for failed checks... the character learns the techniques incorrectly and begins to mess up his skill checks, at least for a while.

Panask
Servitar to Baldur

 

[schporto]

OK. A little more feedback, a little more changes..... The thing is I really like the concept, but yes I do want to make it somewhat balanced. So to that end, let's change this to a general mechanic. So it could be used for other skills also (but not books, maybe a 'training' lock, or a weeks training in how to jump).
So the prices remain what I said earlier, they only get you skill points to spend in that area. So there's still the concept of cross class skills. Also the item that you would need to purchase must exceed you current skill modifier. So if your Jump modifier is 10, you would need to spend 12 weeks, and (12*50 =) 600 gold, then pass a jump check of (15+12=)27, to then get 2 new skill points to spend in jump. Failure of passing that would mean you need to spend another week and another 50gp to retry at that same level.
Does this end up seeming a bit more fair to the skill rich rogues?
And while the books can be passed around, I don't think that hurts too much. To me the real cost of this is the time required. I'd see it as similar to crafting an item. You can't be doing other stuff while learning this. So really I think this might hurt the crafters, not nessecarily the rogues.
Thanks again for the feedback.
-cpd

 

[XeviatTranion]

This is one of the weaknesses of a level based system like D&D. Reading, and understanding, a book should give you increased knowledge ranks, just like lifting weights should increase your strength. But these things, skills and ability scores, go up on their own as you gain levels; thus, in D&D, these activities grant you experience points.

Rather than mucking with game balance by allowing characters to gain skill points out of levels, you could instead have a book grant a circumstance bonus on knowledge checks if the character has the book to reference when they are trying to answer the question. Not the most perfect solution, but even the most intelligent super geniuses reference books.