Boots of S&S, Expeditious Retreat

[RuminDange]

Opps my bad, you're right, thanks for catching that.
That makes it even higher to get the 100%.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Actually first empower and the spell is 9th level already since it is a 7th level spell normally. And yep, only a 5% increase, not anywhere near much help. Especially for blowing a 9th level spell or spell slot on it.

I just wouldn't allow empower to work on sim. But that 5% is up for intepretation. Isn't it something like 50+1d10%? Magic missile is 1d4+1 and the empower exmaple empoweres the 1d4+1 not just the 1d4. So using that logic the entire 50+1d10%is a variable numeric. Then add in a rod of greater empower and an already empowered 9th level sim. And it is 50+1d10% x2 or 100-120%. The sims some a higher level than your self create sims, som of which are more powerful than themselves, on and on. all of which are under the power of the original 17+level wizard.

 

[Berk]

I just wouldn't allow empower to work on sim. But that 5% is up for intepretation. Isn't it something like 50+1d10%? Magic missile is 1d4+1 and the empower exmaple empoweres the 1d4+1 not just the 1d4. So using that logic the entire 50+1d10%is a variable numeric. Then add in a rod of greater empower and an already empowered 9th level sim. And it is 50+1d10% x2 or 100-120%. The sims some a higher level than your self create sims, som of which are more powerful than themselves, on and on. all of which are under the power of the original 17+level wizard.

Actually there is a difference between 1d4+1 and 50+1d10%. The variable is before the number that is added onto. If it was 1d10%+50 then I would say ok, it would be more then 5%. If it was 1d10%+50 then that would make the variable number from 51-60. When it is 50+1d10% the variable number is 1-10.

 

[Antikinesis]

Well the Monk would have two movement speeds.

One land, One Flight

The flight one is 90 x2 x2 or 360' as Fly spell gives you a fly speed of 90'.

Land speed would be the monks speed x2 x2.

This is not a case for D&D multiples as the second x2 is from a double move.

Hmmm... you seem to have unilaterally ruled that Boots of S&S have no effect on Fly-ing subjects, Expeditious Retreat doesn't work on Fly-ing subjects, the "can't run while flying" clause in the spell description is not a restriction on double-moving, the supernatural portion of a monk's land speed IS doubled by Expeditious Retreat and/or Boots of S&S (but not by both at the same time), a double-move is an exception to D&D multiples.... am I leaving anything out?

I agree with some of those rulings, disagree with others. The debate rages on.

-AK

 

[RuminDange]

I just wouldn't allow empower to work on sim.

You could do that, but based on the description of Empower it can work on Simulacrum since it has a variable numeric effect. So you would technically changing the feat by house ruling it doesn't work with the spell.

But that 5% is up for intepretation. Isn't it something like 50+1d10%? Magic missile is 1d4+1 and the empower exmaple empoweres the 1d4+1 not just the 1d4.

You could go either way I guess, since I read somewhere an empowered maximized magic missile gives you 8 points of damage per missile, but by my calculation I get 7.5 if you use the whole 1d4+1 or 7 if you just use the 1d4. Either way by the rounding rules it would be 7. DM intepretation on what part is increased by empower would be needed. What to limit the effect, it's just the 1d10. What to be powerful allow the whole 50+1d10 to be empowered.

And it is 50+1d10% x2 or 100-120%. The sims some a higher level than your self create sims, som of which are more powerful than themselves, on and on. all of which are under the power of the original 17+level wizard.

I don't think it should ever let you get more than 100% of the original. Sure empower can be used to get more tha 100% the original damage, but 120% of something that is limited in the first place...what would the other 20% be? There is nothing in the original to base it on. For instance, if the original could not cast 9th level spells neither could the sim, since the 20% of 0 is 0 for 9th level spell slots. A feat that would be gained next level could also be considered a 0. Nothing gained from nothing, you would only get a max of 100% in this case.

 

[Demon Knight]

Expeditious Retreat won't double your fly speed. ER specifically states you "run in great leaps and bounds". I can't imagine flying in great leaps and bounds...so no, Fly does not stack with ER. The same applies to Boots of S&S. The boots double your NORMAL speed. Flying is not normal when you are under the effect of a Fly spell.

A monks speed is a special case. Boots of S&S and ER will double the monks land speed, but only up to a certain extent. When the monk reaches 9th level, her fast movement is a supernatural ability, which wont be doubled with Boots or ER. If a 9th level monk puts on some Boots of S&S, she either has a speed of 100ft (50 normal * 2).

Once again, ER and Boots of S&S do NOT stack. I'm not sure where I saw it, but I think Boots of S&S was errated to make its doubling an enhancement bonus.

 

[RuminDange]

Once again, ER and Boots of S&S do NOT stack. I'm not sure where I saw it, but I think Boots of S&S was errated to make its doubling an enhancement bonus.

I agree. I'm sure either if it is errate, but just look at the requirements to create boots of S&S. boots of S&S requires ER. Would it allow someone to cast ER on themselves twice. Just by looking at the requirements you should be able to deduce the boots grant an enhancement bonus to speed just as the spell they are based on, therefore no stacking.

-RD

 

[Demon Knight]

I read somewhere that an empowered maximized magic missile does 8 points of damage

The empowered portion of the spell is not maximized also. You have to apply every metemagic feat separately. So a maximized empowered magic missile would do 5 + half of 1d4+1 (round down).

Btw, in D&D, you always round down, unless stated otherwise in the effect.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

You could do that, but based on the description of Empower it can work on Simulacrum since it has a variable numeric effect. So you would technically changing the feat by house ruling it doesn't work with the spell.

I don't consider sim to be a variable numeric effect. i think the the spell infers it is a random effect, which while similar to empoweres variable numeric is not exactly the same.

I consider the sim +1d10% to be more on par with the reincarnation tables than a bulls str or fireball IOW.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

The empowered portion of the spell is not maximized also. You have to apply every metemagic feat separately. So a maximized empowered magic missile would do 5 + half of 1d4+1 (round down).

Btw, in D&D, you always round down, unless stated otherwise in the effect.

I always thought that was a dumb rule. So a empowered enlarged cone of cold does x1.5 damage out to its normal range and normal damage from its normal range to x2 its range.

Or a empowered enalarged fieball does x1.5 damage if it detonates somewhere in its normal ranged but doesn't if it detonates further down the line.

Heck with this lame ruleing can you actually quicken metamagiced spells. i mean the base spell is quickened but the exta range, duration, silent, empowered etc part of it isn't. So what the base spell is a free aciton the rest of the meta-magiced part is a standard action. It adds to many wonky questions.

I think they got their panties in a bunch worrying about the single effect of a maximized empowered what's it.(5 levels higher so who give a hoot IMO) and instead of dealing with the specific occurance they made a general rule that is lame. They could of more easily said once something is maximized it no longer is variabe so it can't be empowered.