Boots of S&S, Expeditious Retreat

[Archer]

I didn't mean to imply that natural modes were (ex) but that (ex) modifiers to natural movement modes are affected by movement bonuses. The first +20 increase of monk speed is (ex) as is barbarians base speed increase. Those Ex modifiers are not named movement bonuses because named movement bonuses are Sp and Su. I'm sure in final release the language will be cleared up some but the end results will be unchanged. The point of 3.5 is to fully standardize all the game mechanics and fix unanticipated confusions in various wordings.

 

[IceBear]

I didn't mean to imply that natural modes were (ex) but that (ex) modifiers to natural movement modes are affected by movement bonuses. The first +20 increase of monk speed is (ex) as is barbarians base speed increase. Those Ex modifiers are not named movement bonuses because named movement bonuses are Sp and Su. I'm sure in final release the language will be cleared up some but the end results will be unchanged. The point of 3.5 is to fully standardize all the game mechanics and fix unanticipated confusions in various wordings.

So this implies that the FAQ's ruling on monk's not gaining a speed increase from the boots will be changed? It will now be an Ex speed increase (from monk abilities) and a named Su or Sp increase from the boots?

IceBear

 

[Antikinesis]

So let me get this straight...if I don't agree with you, I'm not smart? Can you not be civil about this? I would hope so.

A creative, yet entirely inaccurate interpretation of my assertion that you are indeed smart. I freely admit that many smart people disagree with me, regularly. Additionally, I deny being uncivil. Few people would take umbrage at being called "smart".

The speed effect is the same. The speed effect is the one thing of concern.

You seek to prove your point by completely dismissing all facts that contradict your position? A novel approach.

If a spell provides DR and Fire Resistance, and another spell provides only Fire Resistance, does the fire resistance from the two spells stack because the one spell provides something else as well? No.

Agreed. The descriptions for spells that provide fire resistance are very specific about how they overlap instead of stack.

No, it doesn't, and I'd like you to point out where I said it did.

Request granted! I described how the spell and the boots are different. You pointed out one feature they share, and said their effects are identical. THAT is where you asserted that an identical trait makes things identical.

What it does prove, however, is that my girlfriend and a chimpanzee won't stack in D&D. Why? They both have two legs.

Well... okay, but I'd still allow it with the feat "Primate Stacking".

(I dare not attempt to list requirements for such a feat! That would be uncivil.)

-AK

 

[kreynolds]

A creative, yet entirely inaccurate interpretation of my assertion that you are indeed smart.

If your intention was not to be insulting, then I'll take your word for it.

Few people would take umbrage at being called "smart".

Depends on how its spoken.

You seek to prove your point by completely dismissing all facts that contradict your position?

You have yet to provide anything that contradicts my position.

A novel approach.

I'm sure it looks that way.

The descriptions for spells that provide fire resistance are very specific about how they overlap instead of stack.

Exactly. Thus, speed weapons stack with haste, right?

Request granted!

Quote it.

 

[Antikinesis]

Originally posted by kreynolds You have yet to provide anything that contradicts my position.

Your position that the effects of the boots and spell are identical? Of course I did. Competence vs. enhancement bonuses... difference in jump distance calculations... items not identical.

Exactly. Thus, speed weapons stack with haste, right?

Nah... more like keen weapons stacking with improved critical.

Quote it.

Restricting observation to a single facet:
"The speed effect is the one thing of concern."
Claiming the effects are identical:
"How are those effects not identical?"
"Looks identical to me."

Okay, that's enough repetition for me. New point, or I'm bailing!

-AK

 

[kreynolds]

Your position that the effects of the boots and spell are identical?

In regards to the speed increase? Yes.

Of course I did.

No. You didn't. You claim that the jump factor makes it all better, and it doesn't.

Nah... more like keen weapons stacking with improved critical.

No. Not like that at all. Allow me to reiterate. Speed weapons grant an extra partial attack, and they use haste to do it. The writeup of speed merely says it doesn't stack with haste. It doesn't say why. You say that because of the jump factor, ER and BoS&S should stack.

Haste grants a bonus to AC. Speed weapons don't. Therefore, using your argument, speed weapons stack with haste because haste does something that speed weapons do not, thus they are completely different. However, speed weapons don't stack with haste. Thus, I consider your argument flawed, which is why you have yet to contradict my position. You have only contradicted the rules.

Okay, that's enough repetition for me.

Good, because I never said what you claim. You're twisting my words.