Boots of S&S, Expeditious Retreat

[kreynolds]

A ring that gives a +1 bonus to attack rolls when using a longsword stacks with a belt that gives a +1 bonus to attack rolls when using a longsword stacks.

If they are unamed bonuses, yes. If they are not, no.

=Happy now?

No. What kind of speed bonus does ER grant? Enhancement. What do BoS&S use to provide a speed bonus? ER. What kind of speed bonus does ER grant? Enhancement.

Yes, and they do it differently.

I disagree.

Expeditious retreat grants an enhancement bonus to your move speed equal to your move speed.

Yup.

Boots of Striding and Springing double your move speed.

Yup. And how do they do that? ER.

They are obviously dissimilar.

Both double your speed. One is ER. One uses ER to provide the exact same effect. That doesn't sound very dissimilar to me.

It wouldn't.

Exactly.

Fire resistance is not additive or multiplicitive.

They are also the same effect. Weapons of speed and haste don't stack. The speed enhancement doesn't say you get an extra attack "as though with haste". It simply says it doesn't stack. Using your argument, the Speed description is wrong, meaning it does indeed stack, but we know it doesn't.

 

[Demon Knight]

This whole discussion reminds me of the debate between "wielding" and "bearing".

All I have to say is...ask yourself one thing. "If you were the DM, would you allow your players to benefit from the boots AND the spell?"

IMHO, I think a person's sense as a DM should override the ambition as a player. Players all want to get the most out of their character, trying to "milk" every benefit from the rules.

Meanwhile, in bizzaro-world...
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Originally posted by Bizzaro-Antikinesis
So, to answer your question, the two effects are not identical...
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Really?
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Originally posted by Bizzaro-Antikinesis
+1 longbow: bonus to attack rolls...
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...and...
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Originally posted by Bizzaro-Antikinesis
Bracers of Archery: bonus to attack rolls...
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What is the point of contention here? A bonus to attack rolls. Look identical to me.

Let me remind you that the bonus given by a magical +1 longbow is an ENHANCEMENT bonus, whereas the bonus given by Bracers of Archery is a COMPETENCE bonus. So, obviously, both would stack.

The case between Boots of S&S and ER is not so obvious. So for starters, your case is ludicrous, because it bears no significance to the discussion. And secondly, puting words into someones mouth is extremely rude, and you probably need to apologize to kreynolds.

 

[kreynolds]

Your shocking propensity for reading far too much in to every damn thing I type is getting on my nerves.

I don't think I was reading too much into your post. I think you're simply being rude.

 

[Kraedin]

Let me remind you that the bonus given by a magical +1 longbow is an ENHANCEMENT bonus, whereas the bonus given by Bracers of Archery is a COMPETENCE bonus. So, obviously, both would stack.

Let me remind you that the bonus given by expeditious retreat is an ENHANCEMENT bonus, whereas the bonus given by boots of striding and springing is a MULTIPLIER. So, obviously, both would stack.

 

[kreynolds]

Let me remind you that the bonus given by expeditious retreat is an ENHANCEMENT bonus, whereas the bonus given by boots of striding and springing is a MULTIPLIER. So, obviously, both would stack.

Let me point out that the enhancement bonus granted by ER is also a multiplier.

 

[Andion Isurand]

Savage Species includes one spell to enhance each type of natural movement speed ( fly, swim, burrow).

The spells Fly & Expeditous Retreat do not stack, since they affect only the subject, and not one another's effects.

The spell Expeditous Retreat, and the SS boots don't stack for the same reason. The boots double my speed and the spell doubles my speed as well.... but one doesn't double the other. They work independantly from one another and don't interact.

It is like casting Greater Magic Weapon (caster level 20) on a +5 weapon. Its redundant.

That is why I converted the 6th level psionic power "Improved Fly" (speed 180 feet... speed 150 feet for bigger loads) into an arcane spell.

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Besides... if your ""multiplier"" bonuses did stack, why wouldn't I just cast Expeditious Retreat on myself over and over again.
If you say no to this.... what spell do you think fuels the SS boots.

UBER_MUNCHKIN_RED_MAGE: Yes, I would like to buy 10 stones (unsloted wonderous items) of expeditious retreat. I will call the the first stone... the stone of great speed. I will call the the second stone... the swiftness stone. I will call the third stone... the stone of fast feet. By giving them all different names, thier ""multiplier"" bonuses will all stack.

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Boots of Striding and Springing double your move speed.

That says nothing about what type of Bonus it uses... but we know what spell it uses..... so they are both the same enhancement bonus.

Whether you add something it to itself, or you double it, its still the same enhancement.

2 x speed = speed + speed

 

[Ahzad]

Wow

Wasn't expecting this to go on as long as it has, sad that it seems to have gotten hostile in spots.

But thanks for all the feedback it has been interesting.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Wow

...sad that it seems to have gotten hostile in spots.

Yeah, its too bad it had to go that way.

 

[Coredump]

I *think* there has been a miscommunication.

kreynolds, you say they don't stack because they affect the same thing, (movement/speed) but when you give reassons it is because it is powered by the same spell (ER)

So, I *think* your complaint isn't that they both affect speed, but that they both affect speed via 'using' the ER spell.

(Not trying to put words in your mouth, just trying to interpret meaning.)


How would you feel if the BoSS used a different spell? (But had the same effect)

.

 

[kreynolds]

I *think* there has been a miscommunication.

Certainly possible. I'll do my best to clear anything up.

kreynolds, you say they don't stack because they affect the same thing, (movement/speed) but when you give reassons it is because it is powered by the same spell (ER)

Not only that, but also because it is the same effect. Read on for more info though. I also stated it was because the effects are so similar.

So, I *think* your complaint isn't that they both affect speed, but that they both affect speed via 'using' the ER spell.

Partially (see previous answer). There's more though, so continue reading before replying.

(Not trying to put words in your mouth, just trying to interpret meaning.)

It's cool. I appreciate that you're making the effort.

How would you feel if the BoSS used a different spell? (But had the same effect)

I would be forced to go only with the intent of the rules. As is, if ER and BoS&S are allowed to stack, then haste and weapons of speed must be allowed to stack. It would also heavily depend upon the spell in question. If the different spell granted a speed increase because it added extra legs, then that would be different.