Boots of Speed/Spring Attack

[ForceUser]

Spring attack allows you to move, attack, and move without drawing an AoO from the opponent as a full round action. The base speed of the opponet doesn't matter. If you are under a haste spell then you can take a partial action before or after the spring attack action.

This is the best possible description of the circumstances described.

 

[Corwin]

Except that you have to have some movement before and after the attack. SO, move 5ft. in some direction, still keeping the target in your threat range, attack once, then spring back in some direction with some movement up to the total minus the initial 5ft.

OK, now, I have heard this exceedingly annoying interpretation several times now. I still don't get it.

How do you get "must" out of "can"? Reread the description slowly and you will see that it is an option. The word "can" is used a great deal in D&D terminology and is specifically a designator of optionality not manditority. (Hehe, I made a cool sounding sentance with psudo-legalese babble made-up words. ).

No, you do not need to move both before and after your attack. You can do one or the other, or both.

 

[AGGEMAM]

No, you do not need to move both before and after your attack. You can do one or the other, or both.

Correct, it is however a very common House Rule.

 

[Crothian]

Correct, it is however a very common House Rule.

The fact that many of the people who wrote the original rule hasve housed ruled it as such speaks volumes.

 

[mikebr99]

No, you do not need to move both before and after your attack. You can do one or the other, or both.

I agree... but I do insist that there always be some movement before the attack... otherwise you really aren't living up to what I think the author's intent was for this feat. YMMV.

 

[Artoomis]

Spring Attack movement

From the FAQ:

...Or must you move both before and after your attack to avoid attacks of opportunity?...When or how often you move during your turn is irrelevant, but you must make an attack to get the benefit.

The Sage says (in e-mail, but see the FAQ entry above as well) that to use Spring Attack you must move before or after the attack. This is a rather loose interpretation of the words "Moving in this way..." which seem to imply that you get the benefit of the feat only if you move both before AND after the attack (you "spring" in and out). Nonetheless, the "official" rule is that you must only move either before or after, and can move both before and after if you want to. Either way you avoid AoO from the defending character (AoO's generated by your movement, that is).

Thus, when Hasted, you may:

Move and Attack with your standard action (using Spring Attack), and then attack again with your partial action. You do this, one would assume, to avoid the AoO from moving past your opponent's reach weapon, perhaps?

Partial Charge, using Spring Attack, and then use your regualr action to do a Full Attack. Again, you avoid an AoO from reach weapons.

For two attacks AND a Spring Attack both in and out, try this:

Partial Charge (with Spring Attack) fron one attack
Attack and Move (with Spring Attack) using your regular action.

There you have it - a Hasted Spring Attack in and out with two attacks in the middle.

There is some unresolved active debate about whether you must continue to move in a straight line (because you Charged in this round) or not. If I recall correctly, The Sage has not yet ruled on this, though he did rule that if you Ready an action and Partial Charge, all movement must be in a straight line. This is not really the same as Haste, so we'll see - one or two of us have asked him.

 

[ForceUser]

Partial Charge, using Spring Attack, and then use your regualr action to do a Full Attack. Again, you avoid an AoO from reach weapons.

For two attacks AND a Spring Attack both in and out, try this:

Partial Charge (with Spring Attack) fron one attack
Attack and Move (with Spring Attack) using your regular action.

There you have it - a Hasted Spring Attack in and out with two attacks in the middle.

*shakes his head vigorously*

No, you can't do this! A partial charge is a partial action, and a spring attack is a standard action. You can partial charge as a partial, then attack and spring attack away, but you can't spring attack as part of a partial charge!

You can never spring attack more than once in a round, regardless of haste, because a spring attack is a standard action!

Refer above to Crothian's post. That's all you can do with a spring attack while hasted. That's all.

 

[Artoomis]

*shakes his head vigorously*

No, you can't do this! A partial charge is a partial action, and a spring attack is a standard action. You can partial charge as a partial, then attack and spring attack away, but you can't spring attack as part of a partial charge!

You can never spring attack more than once in a round, regardless of haste, because a spring attack is a standard action!

Refer above to Crothian's post. That's all you can do with a spring attack while hasted. That's all.

Wrong :

When using the attack action with a melee weapon, the character can move both before and after the attack...

The Sage has stated you may use a charge (as an "attack action") with Spring Attack. By extension, you could also use a Partial Charge with Spring Attack, thus my scenario works.

Spring Attack is NOT an action at all. It is not a Standard Action. It is a different way of taking a move + attack - which could be:

Single Attack plus Move
Charge with up to Double Move
Partial Charge

This would not be the case had not the Sage included Charge as a possible attack for Spring Attack and rule that you do not need to move both before and after the attack during an Spring Attack. I disagree with both those rulings, BTW, but they do make what the Hasted Spring Double Attack (tm) trick possible, though with a straight-line limitation to at least the partial charge portion..

 

[AGGEMAM]

[BNo, you can't do this! A partial charge is a partial action, and a spring attack is a standard action. You can partial charge as a partial, then attack and spring attack away, but you can't spring attack as part of a partial charge!

You can never spring attack more than once in a round, regardless of haste, because a spring attack is a standard action![/B]

However, a partial action is a standard action minus the move action. So, yes, you can do this.

 

[ForceUser]

Maybe visual aids will help shed some light on this.

Let's say a character is not hasted and doesn't have the spring attack feat. Therefore his melee options are:

[STANDARD ACTION: attack + single move]

[FULL ROUND ACTION: 5-foot step + full attack]

[FULL ROUND ACTION: full attack]

If this character were hasted, then he could do one of the following:

[STANDARD ACTION: attack + single move][HASTED ACTION: attack]

[STANDARD ACTION: attack + single move][HASTED ACTION: single move]

[FULL ROUND ACTION: full attack + 5-foot step][HASTED ACTION: attack]

[FULL ROUND ACTION: full attack][HASTED ACTION: single move]

With me so far? Ok, now let's throw Spring Attack into the mix. The Spring Attacking character without haste looks like this:

[STANDARD ACTION: spring forward + attack + spring away]

[STANDARD ACTION: attack + spring away]

[STANDARD ACTION: spring forward + attack]

Now the hasted Spring Attacker:

[STANDARD ACTION: spring forward + attack + spring away][HASTED ACTION: single move]

[HASTED ACTION: partial charge][STANDARD ACTION: attack + spring away]

[STANDARD ACTION: attack + spring away][HASTED ACTION: single move]

[STANDARD ACTION: spring forward + attack][HASTED ACTION: attack]

[HASTED ACTION: single move][STANDARD ACTION: spring forward + attack]

You have to visualize your character's actions in segments! Try to visualize haste as an extra but separate segment during your turn in which you can perform an extra partial action. Your hasted action is not a part of your usual standard action or full-round action - it's a freebie! Therefore, you can't work a spring attack into it because a spring attack takes longer than a partial action to resolve! I hope that makes sense. I play a bladesinger with spring attack and haste spells every single week, so I had to learn this mechanic early on. When you visualize your actions in separate segments, then link those segments together, you'll better understand what you are and are not capable of doing in a given action.

Hope that helps!