Boss Fights: Fairly Countering Novas

[AbdulAlhazred]

Pretty much the penalty to hit. I wanted a way to discourage that, but only during the alpha strike period, not during the whole fight.

That's why I proposed having the anti-control ability be a lot weaker or non-existent when the monster is bloodied, but also have anti-control work against imposed attack penalties.

The damage wasn't ridiculous. It died in two round, but I'm more annoyed that it accomplished little in round one than that it died in two rounds. It was a single solo, so it's not like it was going to last long.

How about an encounter power that the solo has which lets it shed all penalties? This won't stop the PCs from using debuffs, but it will make them think twice before heaping all their best encounter/daily ones on the creature during a round one alpha strike. Instead they'll have to mete them out more sparingly over the course of a longer fight so that the boss has to either hold its one-use shake off to deter a pile-on or use it to shake off a small penalty. Of course you will want to telegraph the existence of this power so its deterrent effect works, otherwise it will just be an 'awe crap' type thing (which might not be bad, but is probably not what you're going for).

A good way to do this would be to have a backstory that explains how some wizard put a defensive spell on the monster, or it has some item that they know will only 'dispel magic and restore vitality' once per day or something like that. The players will feel rewarded for doing their homework and you'll get a more interesting fight.

Another variation of this is the GTFO power. A boss can show up, absorb the inevitable alpha strike full of dailies, and then bail out through some ready escape mechanism, spend some plausible amount of time recovering (use up its HS, conditions wear off) and then make a return appearance, perhaps surprising the party. This is of course especially good as a lurker boss design. While in theory the boss might be able to pull this trick several times the party is likely to be wise to it the second time (you might give them some tools to defeat the tactic if they're clever, this could be a good place for an SC or just some clever use of rituals/items/things found in the environment/etc).

 

[Umbran]

But these are just my ideas (mostly copied from other places). I call upon the community to tell me what they would do instead, or what has worked for them before. While it's a 4e D&D thread, cool ideas from other editions and games are also welcome.

I'm going to springboard off the thread title, and assume your perceived problem is that when the players pull out all the stops, they can kill off anything fairly easily, leaving them without much of a fight.

So, what is the problem - is it that the fight is too easy, or is it that the players feel comfortable pulling out all the stops?

A simple way to fairly counter the nova is to have something happen to the PCs *after* the nova event. Then, they are caught off-guard, and without resources. So, don't bother fixing the tiger. Find a cool way to threaten them *after* they've used all their big resources on the tiger. Do that a couple of times, and you've turned that boss fight into a big question - "Can I risk using all my big-bang abilities now?"

 

[jodyjohnson]

A simple way to fairly counter the nova is to have something happen to the PCs *after* the nova event. Then, they are caught off-guard, and without resources. So, don't bother fixing the tiger. Find a cool way to threaten them *after* they've used all their big resources on the tiger.

"I see you have defeated my cow." - Betty.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I'm going to springboard off the thread title, and assume your perceived problem is that when the players pull out all the stops, they can kill off anything fairly easily, leaving them without much of a fight.

So, what is the problem - is it that the fight is too easy, or is it that the players feel comfortable pulling out all the stops?

A simple way to fairly counter the nova is to have something happen to the PCs *after* the nova event. Then, they are caught off-guard, and without resources. So, don't bother fixing the tiger. Find a cool way to threaten them *after* they've used all their big resources on the tiger. Do that a couple of times, and you've turned that boss fight into a big question - "Can I risk using all my big-bang abilities now?"

Before works too. The almost exhausted adventurers trudge into the grand cavern and there before them stand Bolgog IV and his trusted bodyguards. Behind you a sudden grating sound signals the sealing of your escape route. Its going to be a fight to the death this time...

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I'm going to springboard off the thread title, and assume your perceived problem is that when the players pull out all the stops, they can kill off anything fairly easily, leaving them without much of a fight.

It wasn't that there wasn't much of a fight. The tiger killed a PC, so I can hardly say the fight wasn't challenging. The problem I had is they can cripple the boss's first round (aka the alpha strike).

A simple way to fairly counter the nova is to have something happen to the PCs *after* the nova event. Then, they are caught off-guard, and without resources. So, don't bother fixing the tiger. Find a cool way to threaten them *after* they've used all their big resources on the tiger. Do that a couple of times, and you've turned that boss fight into a big question - "Can I risk using all my big-bang abilities now?"

This is good advice.

How about an encounter power that the solo has which lets it shed all penalties? This won't stop the PCs from using debuffs, but it will make them think twice before heaping all their best encounter/daily ones on the creature during a round one alpha strike. Instead they'll have to mete them out more sparingly over the course of a longer fight so that the boss has to either hold its one-use shake off to deter a pile-on or use it to shake off a small penalty. Of course you will want to telegraph the existence of this power so its deterrent effect works, otherwise it will just be an 'awe crap' type thing (which might not be bad, but is probably not what you're going for).

I like this one too.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

Have the boss removed from the fight for one round as soon as the PCs "go nova". One tactic the PCs have IMC is for the bard to spend an action point, granting every other PC a +6 bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls until the bard's next turn (paragon path feature). So each PC then uses his or her action point to make as many attacks during that round as possible. And the bard can do this twice in a particular battle (another paragon path feature allows her to spend 2 action points in a single encounter). So the solution is simple - as soon as the bard uses an action point, the boss teleports out of the room for a round (or is "removed from play") using an immediate or free action in response to the spending of the action point. So the PCs end up with all these bonuses to hit and damage for a round, and have to use them carving up the boss's minions.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar