Bothered About Disposable Dragons (B.A.D.D.) Membership Drive

[Werewolf_26]

I'm in

Perhaps we might even go so far as to expandle BADD's list to include other mistreated monsters, who are also poorly played in some cases. Dragons should be at the top of the list simply because they are after all, Dragons.

I haven't slayed many of them (only one to my recollection), but I once knew not how to run them. But after reading a few things posted by a few boardmembers a long time ago, I tried running the dragon as it "should have been".

The Black Dragon, Vreck the Dark, is now a 5 time Champion of PC-Stomping in both single and multiple oppenent combat . They won't go near the swamp, steering at least 100 miles clear of it any time they travel by it.

 

[Carnifex]

Was that adding a name to your 'hit list' there Wolfspider?

 

[Altalazar]

Dragons rule the world? What about the GOOD dragons? There would be a balance, would there not?

And I'm sorry, while I could agree that an old dragon could be an awesome and difficult to defeat opponent, when dragons are younger they do not just automatically get a free pass to old age just for being dragons.

How is your dragon going to rule the world when it started off life with a 7 int, 1 hit die, and a passing roc could have swallowed it whole without a second thought?

 

[Donatello]

I think there's a misconception forming already about what B.A.D.D. is all about.

No one here is saying that dragons should be unkillable, equivalent to elder gods, or in any other way unstoppable. Dragons are just, often, used as big lizards with a high CR instead of the truly awesome creature they are meant to be.

As Wolfspider pointed out, dragons comei n many flavors, colors, CRs, and power levels... there's no reason why a low or mid-level party can't encounter, and defeat, a dragon.

I think the "3 Dragons in 2 Days" thread really set off a lot of people, and B.A.D.D. may be a direct result of that, but that's really just a catalyst. We here in B.A.D.D. are just against, as the name implies, Disposable Dragons. Big Lizard Syndrome is common these days, and we here at B.A.D.D. want to stop that.

 

[dafrca]

I think that you'll find that most of us here don't think that dragons should be unbeatable. As I've mentioned before, several have been killed in adventures I've run. We merely want to exchange ideas about how to make them truly memorable and tough opponents.

I agree 100% Wolfspider. I do not think the Dragon should be unbeatable, but when a party does beat one it should be something each remembers for a long time to come. It should require a strugle.

Oh and I would like to join B.A.D.D. please.

dafrca

 

[Henry]

I agree - I was going to post this very sentiment earlier, to make sure there was no confusion. (Right about the time of the poster talking about the 13 INT dragon not being godlike in intelligence). We need to make sure this is included in the mission statement - that dragons should not be unkillable, but that dragons should be played as the canny and powerful figures that they are in myth and legend.

Of course, not every white dragon is going to be smarter than a brain damaged sea otter, but if a creature has an intelligence of 16 or higher, a wisdom of 15 or higher, and a strength to lift a Spanish Galleon, then by Tiamat it's going to give any would-be slayers a run for their money!!!! They are after all the titular creatures of D&D - they should not be given short shrift.

That's I think what the mission statement of B.A.D.D. should be -

"Play those dragons like their lives depended on it!"

NOT as "NPC #37454 - Dragon - Green - Type F treasure."

 

[LordMelkor{Talos}]

I will join B. A. D. D.!

Behold for I am Melkor, first among the Ainuri, rightful King of Arda, father of all that is Dark, Evil and Ugly!On the previous board I was known as Lord Talos, but the time has come for me to manifest in full glory!

Dragons were my greatest`s accomplishment, ultimate product of my evil genius, born in the depths of Angand, far from the false light of the cursed sun, born of the foulest and most twisted sorcery, blessed with the Black Flame that I command supreme! No other servants of mine, not even the dreaded Balrogs, could invoke as much terror in the very hearts of those that dared to deny me, even great Lords of Noldor were trembling , seeing they belowed cities turned to ashes in a terrible orgy of fire, rage and destruction, that dragons were masters of! So was the fate of Nargothrond with its marvellous caverns and mighty Gondolin whose golden towers are no more!


Those were the ulimate messangers of doom, their teeth like the greatest swords, claws-spears, tail-hurricane, breath-DEATH.



Yet Dragons were not only killing machines, their dark cunning was legendary especially that of Glaurung, the father of dragons, capable of destroying entire armies, yet he was able to trap Turin Turambar into the net of his intrigues which resulted with this loser sleeping with his own sister! The coward Turambar killed him during sleep, yet even while dying he was able to cause the death of both Turin and his sister Niniel, with nothing but poisonous words!

So remember, Dragons are the pinnacle of monstrosity, that is a reason this game is called Dungeons and Dragons.

 

[Clear Dragon]

I'll join your organization!

Nothing bothers me more than poorly played advesaries (NPCs, monsters, and especially dragons). As a player I expect the DM to throw everything an opponent has a me. Dragons that are played like unintelligent animals are the worst. Not only because it makes them less of a challende, but it also because they end up played without personality. While I haven't had the opportunity to use one yet in my short career as a DM you bet I will use every trick I can think of and a few garnered from this board when it comes time!

Btw, do most of you that DM use good dragons much in your campaigns? And if so what roles do the fill?

 

[Hatchling Dragon]

With a name like mine I suppose I'm just stuck with being a member.

I was secretly relieved when my group, playing through Sunless Citadel, managed to totally miss/avoid the room containing the White Wyrmling. I hadn't thought myself up to the challange of making a Dragon sufficiently scary. I do not want my group's reaction, when faced with fighting a Dragon, to be something like: "Well it's about time, something with decent loot!"

While I agree that they're not unstopable, I also acknowledge that they're intelligent creatures with an impressive array of natural weapons and abilities, and in some cases even magic. I look forward to any and all tips and tactics for making the most of these.

Hatchling Dragon

 

[Altalazar]

Now that is what I am talking about - people getting upset about a WYRMLING being 'too easy' to defeat in combat? The damn thing is still in diapers, has an int of like 6 or 7, and you still don't want the players to have the experience of defeating it?

First, I want to say that I'll join the organization, but only on the agreement that the charter include words to the effect that we are about making OLD dragons memorable fights, and not just about giving all dragons unrealistic knowledge and intelligence for their age category.

Now, as for the Sunless Citadel, I think it actually DID make for a memorable fight. A party of five characters got their asses kicked by basically a dragon in diapers. They didn't die, but it was a tough fight, and after that, one of them said - 'If that's how tough a freakin' HATCHLING dragon is, I don't ever want to have to face an adult one!'. They did face and defeat a very young dragon later (a black) in the next module, but that was a very long, drawn out, tough fight.

And when the time came and they (while still about 8th level or so) saw what appeared to be a very old dragon, they didn't even hesitate - they ran their asses away.