Bottom 5 D&D and D20 items

Ramien Meltides said:
] ...The first book, Villains and Scoundrels, covers 250 "bad guys" who run the gamut from sinister bartenders to empire-ruling liches. Commoners, adventuring types, and some even stranger things sprinkled in...

I don't want "empre ruling Liches, adventuring types, or 'Stranger things'", sorry. See my comment above about the Freakshow.

I also don't need them to be "bad". Some good, some bad would be fine, but what has been described by Stannis et. al. is, I think, regular joes.

I have no problem comin up with the NPC's upon whom my plots turn, I want the "window dressing"
 

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One of my weak points is making up minor NPC's that the players are going to be interacting with all the time. A book that has grooms, and ohter type of hanger on's that the PC's might hire for extended periods is what I need. I also have a need for minor NPC's that the players are visiting on a reacuring (sp?) basis for supply, information or just character development.
 

Running good NPC's takes TALENT. It's not something you can publish in a book.

I would not buy a book with NPC's to figure out how to hold a lengthy conversation on purple flowers. When you run out of "canned" donversation from the book, where then? Your NPC falls as flat as he was without the book. This is the wisdom behind the old "give a man a fish/teach a man to fish" saying.

At best, you can try to teach a reader HOW to come up with those details, and you can do that in just a few short paragraphs (one tip: pick a character from a TV show you've seen) but ultimately it comes down to the improvisational talent of the DM. Some have it (Piratecat), some don't.

I don't have this talent. I would not waste my time or money on a book that proposed to shore up my lack of talent with long descriptions of NPCs.

Statblocks I can use, I will pay for. Learning how to improv must be learned improvisationally.


Wulf
 

Garmorn said:
One of my weak points is making up minor NPC's that the players are going to be interacting with all the time. A book that has grooms, and ohter type of hanger on's that the PC's might hire for extended periods is what I need. I also have a need for minor NPC's that the players are visiting on a reacuring (sp?) basis for supply, information or just character development.

Yeah, after Uncommon Commoners is finished, there could be an Uncommon Commoners 2: Hirelings. Did you know about your cook's "molasses midget" fetish? Want to hear about that mercenary who always cries when he sees short women with red hair and blue eyes? Buy Uncommon Commoners 2 and know their secrets!
 


Lots of boring NPCs

Why don't we see if we can get Morrus to set aside a page or hosted site or something we folks can deposit boring NPCs. If everyone just posted one or two NPCs, we should have a long list in no time.
 

Re: Lots of boring NPCs

radferth said:
Why don't we see if we can get Morrus to set aside a page or hosted site or something we folks can deposit boring NPCs. If everyone just posted one or two NPCs, we should have a long list in no time.

I don't want boring, I just don't want a thousand NPC's where (in an effort to be Un-Boring) the authors have turned to super powered gimmickiness (again, look to the Polymorphed Dragon Bartender example) in an effort to spice things up.
 

Wulf Ratbane said:
Running good NPC's takes TALENT. It's not something you can publish in a book.

I would not buy a book with NPC's to figure out how to hold a lengthy conversation on purple flowers. When you run out of "canned" donversation from the book, where then? Your NPC falls as flat as he was without the book. This is the wisdom behind the old "give a man a fish/teach a man to fish" saying.

At best, you can try to teach a reader HOW to come up with those details, and you can do that in just a few short paragraphs (one tip: pick a character from a TV show you've seen) but ultimately it comes down to the improvisational talent of the DM. Some have it (Piratecat), some don't.

I don't have this talent. I would not waste my time or money on a book that proposed to shore up my lack of talent with long descriptions of NPCs.

Statblocks I can use, I will pay for. Learning how to improv must be learned improvisationally.


Wulf

yes, but these are just going to be mini-hooks to get things started! take the wildflower example. of course you're not buying a book to figure out how to hold a conversation on wildflowers. you're buying the book because you never would have thought to make an NPC have that particular interest to begin with!

of course it takes talent to bring NPC's to life! it takes talent to DM, period! this book would just be about giving DM's a spark, or a starting point. the DM then customizes the NPC according to the interaction. obviously, when the PC's are done getting through the initial conversation it's up to the DM to follow through or let that NPC pass out of play, but hopefully there's a foundation to build on.

let me put it this way, how many times have you DM'd and said, "okay, there's a crowd full of people in this inn", and then not run one single encounter with one of those people. how realistic is that? yep, another night at "Vanilla Inn" for the PC's.

but with this book, the DM could describe the bartender as walking gingerly. One of the PC's takes the bait and asks what's up. the bartender goes on a diatribe on how his roids are flaring up. then, after the initial exchange, the DM improvises - "i'm looking for a particular flower that will stop these bad-boys from barking."

you might argue, "well, i could have thought of that myself". the fact of the matter is, you didn't and wouldn't have. a writer somewhere did and maybe, just maybe, their idea WAS a good one. maybe the PC's laugh their asses off when you tell them that bart has roids. maybe bart doesn't take kindly to that and sends three ruffians after the PC's. i know my PC's probably would appreciate an encounter like that.

psion argues that any unnecessary NPC plot involvement is a waste of time. respectfully, if it's done by a DM with a bit of flair, i disagree. no, you wouldn't want to make entire adventures out of moving Lucinda's (the barmaid) bed from the downstairs to the upstairs. done sparingly, however, i think it would work. after all, maybe something the PC's are after was hidden in Lucinda's house.
 
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I agree with Stannis.

The key thing here is whether you run a macro-level campaign, or a micro-level campaign.

I myself have tried to make my game more and more micro. The one extreme is an Epic-level save the world, deal only with kings, high-level NPCs, and villains kind of game. The kind of game where the PC says, "I need to acquire equipment for my 7 henchmen" and the DM responds "Ok, subtract 2,000 gp from your character. You fit them all in breastplate, and a standard array of weapons." Bah

The other extreme is a low-magic, low-fantasy, medieval world that has a somewhat grim-n-gritty (to use a term) feel to it. In that kind of setting, having a rich palette of detailed NPCs would be a great boon. Granted, not every player is going to be up to this kind of game. An entire game might consist of talking to people at the inn, and you might never leave a town of 100 people because of the complex nature of the people living in it, and the rich tapestry of events that could occur within a village of such meager size. This kind of game would stress intense role-playing, and the PCs might never even get past 3rd level, but it would be fun as hell, and quite challenging for everyone involved.


Personally, I think the second extreme is probably just that - extreme, BUT, I think the closer you are to that side of the spectrum versus the other side, the more real your world becomes, and the more life it has.


Wow, we have REALLY digressed from the topic at hand, haven't we?
 
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Wulf Ratbane said:
Running good NPC's takes TALENT. It's not something you can publish in a book.

I would not buy a book with NPC's to figure out how to hold a lengthy conversation on purple flowers. When you run out of "canned" donversation from the book, where then? Your NPC falls as flat as he was without the book. This is the wisdom behind the old "give a man a fish/teach a man to fish" saying.

At best, you can try to teach a reader HOW to come up with those details, and you can do that in just a few short paragraphs (one tip: pick a character from a TV show you've seen) but ultimately it comes down to the improvisational talent of the DM. Some have it (Piratecat), some don't.

I don't have this talent. I would not waste my time or money on a book that proposed to shore up my lack of talent with long descriptions of NPCs.

Statblocks I can use, I will pay for. Learning how to improv must be learned improvisationally.


Wulf

Sure but not everone has the talent to think of good hooks. As for picking characters from TV or movie, History channel and the News channels are not very good for that type of thing.

I don't expect this to the the type of thing that every wants. People like Psion don't want to interact with minor NPC's. My group does. I would like to have this type of book or PDF. I expect that it might even give me or members of my group some nice character concepts.

My strong point is story line and general backgroud. NPC are very hard for me to create. I am more of a fact type person the creative.


edited to correct grammer.
 
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