D&D 5E (2014) Bounded Accuracy and Asmodeus

[doctorbadwolf]

Mankind history is full of long lasting tyrant that were only simple human.
A Dm should not have problem to explain why Asmodeus still rule the nine hells.

Sure, but Devils live a lot longer than humans.

 

[CapnZapp]

I'm genuinely shocked to hear you make such a claim, given your posting history.

You can't have paid much attention then. This isn't the first time I'm saying 5e is far superior to AD&D and d20 (and certainly 4E). Specifically:
- breadth of PHB character options
- linear fighters, quadratic wizards balance
- the "buff up and teleport in" tactic mostly stopped
- ease of play (everything from getting rid of small numbers game to streamlined rules)
- speed of play (this really means "combat isn't as involved and slow as in 4e, where it took over the sessions to the point we felt we were playing a tactical combat boardgame with little to no roleplaying)
- ease of NPC prep (perhaps the most important consideration for me as DM)

5e still isn't perfect, but it sure is the best edition yet. I can't imagine running the older editions.

What we still need include:
- a robust magic item economy, so players can convert loot into character customization. 1000 gp gives you a small or circumstancial bonus, while 10000 gp gives you a larger or more general bonus. In other words, a system that is based on utility and not spurious characteristics like collectibility.
- a robust high-level game, where monsters (their stat blocks, that is) take actual PC capabilities into account, and are given the tools to respond in kind
- a robust attrition model, at least if we wish to maintain the pretense this is what the game is about

Everything else is small game. Including this thread and the issue of lax archery restrictions.

My wishlist does include a deeper character building experience; more options and subsystems geared towards all characters, including existing ones. (Let me exemplify: a new subclass is not something an existing character can use, while a new feat is. So this means more "layers-in-depth" like feats, battlefield maneuvers, metamagic as well as dragonmarks and psionic tatoos, and not only more "layers-in-breadth" like new subclasses, races and backgrounds.)

 

[Elderbrain]

I don't think that is officially the 5e lore. He was a god in 4e, but I don't think he is considered a god in any of the other editions.

Well, the 5E MM states that he has the POWER of a Lesser God, so interpret that as you will. And in 1E Deities and Demigods (later re-edited and re-released as Legends and Lore) Asmodeus and several other Arch-devils are listed as Lesser Gods (no stats provided there, it's kind of a sidebar where they also mention which Demon Lords are considered Gods). So there IS precedent for treating Asmodeus as a deity (Planescape left the matter vague with regards to Archdevils, but did positively state that several Demon Lords/Princes were deities; i.e. Orcus)

 

[Mirtek]

And in 1E Deities and Demigods (later re-edited and re-released as Legends and Lore) Asmodeus and several other Arch-devils are listed as Lesser Gods (no stats provided there, it's kind of a sidebar where they also mention which Demon Lords are considered Gods).

Also the 1e MotP said in the appendix with the powers for deities that planar rulers are treated as lesser deities while on their home plane.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Even if the rest of the archprinces can gang up on Asmodeus, they probably won't succeed. Sure, bounded accuracy gives them a shot in a one-on-one fight, but don't forget a few of the King of Devil's tricks.

~ his blood being spilled spawns pit fiends. Renewable, high level mooks that can fight back and hurt the dukes of hell just as much as the princes and princesses of hell are hurting him.

~ The Ruby Rod has a reset button that can fully heal Asmodeus as well as channel some very powerful effects. The Ruby Rod is quite possibly one of the most powerful artifacts in all creation.

~ Getting to Asmodeus requires navigating one of the trickiest layers of Hell beset by resource-draining high level devils.

~ Killing Asmodeus would cause chaos in the multiverse - for as much as he's a god of evil, he's also keeping the devils focused on fighting the Abyss, he keeps the war generally from spilling over to non-evil planes, he's the original signer of the Pact Primeval, which can cause lots of issues if that gets null and void. So, while most goodly gods won't -like- him, he serves to weaken the other forces of evil. This gives Asmodeus allies that no archdevil could really tap into.

That's on top of getting the archdukes of hell united. Good luck with that!

He's still a god in Forgotten Realms. Not as strong as he was in 4e, but still there and going strong in 5e FR. Outside of FR? Saaa... no mention one way or another, which can mean anything.

And on top of all that we have the fact that there is no reason not to conclude a being as ancient and powerful as Asmodeus isn't the equivalent of a 20th level (insert spellcaster of your choice).

Now give him a few millennia, truly infinite resources and zero qualms about the types of shortcuts and powers he uses to set up a center of power to be safe.

A simple Contigency with Teleport to Panic Room when he hits less than half health, or when he says a certain code word, and any plan to kill him involves

-> Getting enough Devils to work together without him finding out and planting spies to ruin the whole ordeal

-> Getting to him in such a manner that does not arouse suspicion

-> Getting the drop on him cause you know if he makes the first move everything is going to go terrible for at least one of you thru demotion... Actually, if we call demoting a Devil an action and he can demote the Archdevils.... then you've got a time limit before your all imps as well

-> Beating all of his back up plans



Really, I can never imagine the scenario where a normal party could beat something that has had the time and power to dig in and prepare for such assaults. Asmodeus probably takes such planning to 15 on a scale of 10. It would take an immense effort to unseat him.

But it is cool that the possibility exists, that even the gods need to be careful lest they be overthrown and destroyed.